Transitioning back to kibble - Page 2

Your first question can they eat raw and kibble at the same time.  Yes 

I have been feeding raw for over 15 years and never had a problem. Never could see what was in kibble that could possibly make it harder to digest than bone and gristle.

How many Tums did your Vet want you to feed that could possible make a difference if your dog needs calcium.

If you are feeding raw are you using enough bone in the diet.

I have a 10 and 9 year old at my feet now and if you were not told their age you would never know by the sparkle and zip in them.


Raised on raw since birth and their dam. I make my own don't like pre-made.

Be interesting to see what Jenni says about the X-rays.

I would keep feeding raw but adjust what I was feeding.  Are you making your own food or using a pre-made.

I am not a vet but...the form of protein in raw is very different than that in dry kibble.  Dogs easily assimilate raw protein - duh - it's what they are designed to do.
Origen has a VERY hoigh protein level...like Evo and several others. Cannot imagine your vet suggesting to buy a high protein dry vs what reads to be a well balanced raw...??? questions arise? they should IMHO. 
Most vets do not have even 1 nutrition class under their belt and are subject to dog food reps.  If they want you to feed a lower protein diet and dry, then read protein levels on the back of the bags. 
I have a question though - why is high protein with lots of natural calcium from necks/backs leaching out the bone calcium? I am interested in understanding the relationship if someone with a canien nutrition background can answer this.
You might turn to Monica Segal too - she's got a website- superb about nutrition.
best of luck - sounds tough.
Alex

After reading through this, it sounds to me like one more vet taking a customer for a ride. Follow Jenni's advice and Western Rider. Sounds like pano. I would want another vet opinion if was my dog. Be interesting to hear what is said by Jen's vet friend.

I am not understanding the correlation between high protein and calcium loss. Is this because after the protein has been assimilated and turns to ash, it creates an acid environment and thus the body takes from the bones to correct the ph? That would be my only guess as to why. SO changing to a kibble high in protein isn't going to really work.

Ive read alot about calbium and bone loss and that the body cannot break down MOST forms of calcuim so its pretty much excreted through the urine. What are the kidney levels? You could try using liquid calcium or some herbalists believe in taking suppliments that will tell the body to create more bone cells and allowing the body to regulate itself. I would be looking for other reasons as to why your gal's system isnt assimulating the calcium she is fed. I personally don't feel that changing to bagged food is the answer. On the contrary, I would be feeding homecook but maybe substitute the raw for a parboil veggie or fruit.

Don't forget that estrogen plays a big role in strong bones. Is your gal spayed? Do vets even offer HRT?

You could ad some type of greens;  romaine lettuce, (NO iceberg) any greens like kale, spinach, mustard greens, have tons of natural calcium or do a combo of greens for her, I just give whole leaves, mine love all the greens, dandalion (sorry about sp) also is really good;  I too am suspicious of all this and they tried to sell you a bag of dog food.

Take your blood/urine/bone density info and get a second opinion.  I would not change a thing in her diet but add some a cup of orijen if you want.  I would contact a natural nutritionist, or holistic vet with all your info.  Probably the Tums is OK as well as your raw feeder calcium sea based supplement.  Don't over supplement though, can cause some definite skeletal problems. 

Orijen is not the be all, end all though, I read a definite out of balance report done by a breeder of hounds that was very interesting to say the least.  I will try to forward you this info.  Best of luck with your girl,  Nan

I'm curious; when you brought her in, was she diagnosed before or after finding out you fed raw?

Okay I have a lot of questions to answer, let see, the vet has known she was on raw since she was around 1 yr old he has been our vet since she was a pup, and I thought he was okay with the raw diet. I have just been adding since yesterday about a 1/4 cup of the Orijen 6 fish to her raw diet along with the seaweed calcium supplement. I have also cut back on the bone. I don't want to over feed since her activity level has been cut to just short walks. She is spayed (done at age 2) The vet said she should get 8 tums a day or 4 of the tums ultra. I didn't think tums were good for dogs eating RMB's? I am buying the raw from a packing house that makes the beef blend with organs and some fat added also they make wild boar and a beef and green tripe blend. I feed a chicken back and a turkey neck (not a very big neck) with every meal (twice 6am and 6:30 7 pm) Maybe too much bone? Her poop is nice and formed sometimes a little dry then I will add alittle more organ. I was told that the bone I am feeding is dead bone and she is not getting any calcium from them, which I thought was odd. I also really don't like keeping her sedated but the vet said she must stay down no running or jumping he does not want a stress fracture, he said hard to heal with her bones thin like the are.

"Dead bone?" As opposed to live Tums? 

I am really curious to see these xrays.

I am fascinated by that term 'dead bone'. It doesn't honestly sound as if they know what they are talking about in terms of calcium/nutrition. That would be akin to saying you are feeding dead protein as opposed to live protein. Makes no sense.

I second the other posters, get a second opinion - always get a referral to an orthopaedic specialist if you can. With what you have been feeding there should be no lack of calcium. Not saying that it couldn't be a correct diagnosis, but it would be way, way down the list of likely suspects IMO (I am not a vet either).

I cannot see a kibble and calcium supplement correcting a calcium deficiency if this is what this is. You have been feeding a diet naturally rich in calcium. There may be more to it than this. I have just had xrays of my 10 year old for her hips which are not good (which I knew) and did spinal xray at the same time. She has been raw fed all her life, and the vet commented what a beautiful spine she has (shame about the hips!) My point is, that if raw feeding generally caused calcium deficiency we would have a hell of a lot of dogs with this problem by now and we haven't. So look deeper, if this is the problem look closer for the cause and don't just settle for raw feeding being the answer.

Good luck with your girl, and I hope you find the solution.