Pinch Collars - Page 2

You are right Nan...I never ever trusted my best...I always use leash and collars  two ..just like you posted.


I have seen top dogs , USA champion SCHh3 , BREAK  and run after a deer..

GOD  gave the german shepherd a prey drive and I will never trust that instinct to bolt no matter how great that dog never breaks a command or a stay .

I have seen two dogs do it. I have seen 10 dogs sit thru a bolt and not pursue the deer or squirrel and never move...but  I would not trust it..

too sad to be writing about it later..

I am over sensitive to death...I  have a wire kennel at my front gate...when gate opens whoever is on the in side goes in until my gate and my truck is in place and gate locked..I have deer, armadillas, people, and other dogs and squirrels going across a busy FM road...no way would I trust my collar less kids...but I am a no body of a trainer so I will collar mine safely...lol



Yr

No one is saying not to use leashes and collars!!! 

Hard to say if anyone can really ever have 100% obedience, but I have dogs currently who have never, ever, broken certain commands, regardless of the distractions. Some dogs DO listen 100%...or 99%...which may be the best you can hope for with ANY living thing, hence the back-up equipment.

The moral of the story is use one more form of control than you think you need. 

"No really Keith: are these dogs REALLY capable of 100%?? I mean mentally? Can they handle that pressure? Of course I would love 100% but years ago someone told me that you or anyone would NEVER get 100% out of a dog no matter how hard you train. Or how effectively you train?? Just asking. Nan Thx for your input. N"

My point, Nan, is that is we set the bar at 80% reliability or 90%, we start to make excuses for the 10 or 20% of the time that the dog doesn't do what we expect.  In my experience, the dogs tend to rise to the level that we expect of them.  If we expect that they will do what we want most of the time, they will...most of the time.  If we expect that they they will do what we want all of the time, they will do that as well.

As an aside...love your dogs...







 

Ditto, Keith. People think 95% is "good enough." Or they say "you can't expect a dog to ____________ all the time." I disagree. Their very lives could depend on their compliance on day. How serious are you when you tell your child not to run into the street? I am just as serious when I teach the "stop" command or "leave it." I assume that if I'm using these commands, there is very real potential danger, and I am deadly serious in my expectations of 100% compliance. 

The leash and collar IS the back-up, to me. Or at least that's how I think it should be. People tend to use training equipment as crutches instead of a safety measure in place until they're not needed anymore. Lots of people disagree, but I honestly think they're missing out big time on what a dog is truly capable of and the amazing relationship you can have with a dog who you can communicate that well with. Nothing bugs me more than people putting a glass ceiling above a dog, thinking "a dog can't do that." 

Very very sorry about your friend's dog, Nan. That is just terrible to go through.

Maybe this is just my own confirmation bias ;-) but I've noticed that a lot of the people who understand the importance of mental control and see leashes and collars as "backup" ( but very important and habitually used backup!) have worked with horses or other large animals.

LOL! So true Mollyandjack, I have horses, never thought about it like that, but you're correct. You aren't going to out muscle a 1400lb animal, it's all training and how you direct them with your body language.

I remember a long time ago, something I read, or someone said to me, the only reason you can control a horse who obviously is much larger than you, is because the horse THINKS you are bigger than him.

Thank  you everyone;  am just trying to possibly save someone else from a tragedy like this.  My No. Cal. trainer taught me to have a backup as I obviously cannot run after and get my dog, by the time I could get to them it could be too late.  With that in mind, I have always trained with a backup system, sometimes somewhat laxidasical but none the less something for safety.

Personally I am thinking about a harness along with whatever collar I use.  That is my latest thought for safety;  and as far as the 80-100% reliability;  I am going to strive for that 100%;  I have been lax as of late but NO MORE.  Thx  Nan  Great days everyone and be safe.

Leerburg makes a double ended leash just for that reason, one clip goes on the pinch and the other on the back up collar

http://leerburg.com/5131.htm

I agree, if you don't think you can trust your dog 99% of the time, it will never happen, and your dog knows it.
You have to test your dog challenging situations at different times, work with the weakness to secure the behaviour.
I use Herm Sprenger for 30 years and it never came off.
It just needs to be one command that you can rely on all the time, like a "Platz" or so that can safe your dogs life.