What do I need to ask for? - Page 2

You already got some good advice.  Like others said a lot of it is personal preference.  For me, the first thing I look for is a breeder who titles their dogs before breeding.  For me that is a must.  Obviously hip/elbow certification is a given (must) for me as well. 

I like a breeder who is a bit smaller, where their dogs live at least part of the time in the house, someone who works their dogs in SchH (or something similar), etc... I also like breeders who keep their own puppies and work/raise/train/title them.  Sometimes with a new breeder that hasnt happened yet, but for someone who has had several litters it is nice to see them willing to keep something.  I am not a fan of the big mass producing kennels or broker situations.

All of the other health testing is nice, but most breeders do not do it all yet.  Hoping that more will start doing DM going forward!  If you find a good breeder that you like who hasnt done DM test, maybe ask?!  For $45-65 they may be willing to do it to sell a puppy :)  Even if just one parent is tested and is clear, at least you know your puppy will not be affected or develop DM.  I personally would rather see CERF than thyroid/cardiac, but again not a lot of breeders test for any of those. 

I also like a breeder who is honest (of course it is hard to tell if they really are or not), but it is nice to hear some negatives/bad things about their dogs or what they have produced!  If they are willing to tell you something bad, then I am guessing they are being more honest than someone who only tells you what you want to hear.  Along the same lines, dont assume because they are honest about something bad that they have "bad dogs".  Chances are that they are just being honest where as other breeders probably have had the same types of problems or worse but either do not keep track so do not know or are not willing to openly share.  When I hear someone who has bred several litters say they have never had ANY problems it kind of makes me wonder.  A new breeder with a couple litters, sure, he may not have had any problems yet... but when you breed enough you will come across some type of problem no matter how much you try to avoid it! 

I also like a breeder who is honest about what they see in the puppies.  Someone who isnt afraid to say that their puppy is not what you are looking for and send you to someone else... rather then just making a sale knowing it isnt what you want. 

Just a couple things I look at and consider when looking at breeders....
Valerie

http://www.offa.org/index.html 

50ish, this is a link to all the health information you will probably need to know when looking for a German Shepherd. You can surf around and get a lot of information including which GSD's have passed  the available appropriate tests.

DM = degenerative myelopathy, probably the most dreaded disease in this breed as there is not yet a cure and the end results are devastating.  You can google degenerative myelopathy  and find a lot of information on the internet. There is also information on DM on the webite I linked above. 

CERF concerns the results of eye exams that look for diseases that are specific to each individual breed. I'm not familar with eye diseases that are common to this breed, so someone else might be able to tell you more about that. Information on that is on the above site too under the topic of eye disease. Just be aware that any clearances on eye diseases are only valid for one year and need to be repeated annually.

You will also see reference to CHIC. GSD's with a CHIC certification have been tested for various disease and conditions. I think that the only GSDCA designated requirements for a CHIC are clear hips and elbows and passing a temperament test. If that's not right, somone will correct me. Many dogs with a CHIC have also been tested for extra things like thyroid and heart function.

If you have anymore questions, just ask. I know it seems overwhelming to consider so many issues when looking for a new dog, but the reasons you want  the dog is moot when considering health tests. Good health is very bit as  important in a companion dog as it is in a top show dog.

No DNA for DM would be a deal breaker for me. No valid or ethical excuse for not doing it.

Good health is (e)very bit as  important in a companion dog as it is in a top show dog.

Bravo, Blitzen for the above statement. Also, I would agree to the devastation of DM. Since it can now be avoided with testing, it is a must-have, a no brainer.

Blitzen, my issue with CHIC is (and correct me if I am wrong?) that the dog will get a "CHIC" even if it FAILED the cert.  It just has to be DONE (pass or fail) and people can list CHIC behind the dogs name.  At least that is the way it was explained to me.  So for me, it is pointless.  Actually my older dog got a CHIC number LOL I didnt even know it until I seen it on the OFA database years later.  I guess you have to do OFA H&E and a GSDCA TC to get a CHIC. 

Eyes diseases that are common for GSDs - Pannus!  I have been hearing more and more about GSDs with pannus :( 

Also, as far as people not doing DM tests... IMO it is unfair to say anyone not doing it is unethical.  Many people are not aware of it.  Not everyone comes to this website/message board.  Many people are not even familiar with DM, while others may be they have no idea there are tests available for it.  Obviously some people just do not care, but I believe that many do care but just dont know about it.  Also, some may know about the test but not understand it or how it works, so do not understand the importance or reasons to test. 

To be honest I just tested my first dog last year.  I had heard of the test before, but did not understand anything about it.  I will do all of my dogs from now on... but I dont think I was unethical last year before I tested my female.  That is where education comes in.  Which is why I said maybe ask a breeder about it if you find a good breeder who hasnt done it. 

JMO of course
Valerie

Valerie, I guess I'm super sensitive about having gone through something similar, if not DM, with a pup that was only 14.5 months old. Awful does not begin to describe that period and the end when we PTS.

The test has been available since 2008 and it has been discussed many, many times on all breed boards, in breed magazines,  and on the net. Why would a GSD breeder not know about it by now?  I'll give the benefit of the doubt and accept that maybe last year at this time the news was not common knowledge and maybe some are just hearing about it today If a breeder knows about DM and the DNA test, then IMO there is no ethical excuse to not test before breeding one more litter. Look at all the litters, stud services, dogs for sale advertised right here that do not even mention DM testing. Many of these same breeders post here and on other breed boards regularly, so I have to think they are aware of what DM is and the DNA test.  I suppose they have never had a dog with DM or shared the pain of a friend who did.

That's correct, a CHIC only means the dog has been tested, not that it's free of the disease or condition. I don't have a problem with that since it gives the buyer the information that a particular dog was tested so they know to ask for the results. If there is no CHIC then either the dog wasn't tested or the owner didn't report it. Some CHICs depend on the results of CERF exams which are only good for a year, so a CHIC can't be considered a health clearance per se. It is just a heads up indicating that a dog has been tested for the diseases as required by the parent club. Seasoned dog people don't need to see a CHIC behind a dog's name since they know what to ask for. It's a good heads up for a novice buyer. I mentioned it to 50ish in passing since she will probably notice that if she looks at the OFA website.

Beetree, I  can't imagine anything more heartbreaking than losing a young dog that way. 

http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/

Click on this site and you can do a search for any dog with a CHIC cert. Click on the dog's name and it will tell you the tests that were done, by whom, and the results.


 

  to what Blitzen, GSD2727, beetree and blitzen and GSD2727 and beetree said

All the "happy customers" in the world cannot replicate testing and certifications.