being the "alpha"? - Page 2

I think it is the socialization we do with puppies at a young age that forms a bond with a human. I have been around dogs who haven't been around people until they are older adults and they don't want to have anything to do with people even though their ancestors did. That being said dogs will form a bond with any species it encounters as a puppy and form a pack. My dogs play very differently with my cats than they do with each other and they play very differently with my kids than they do me or the cats. I don't think they have any kind of species confusion however, they do view all of us as their pack and in any pack there is a leader. That is how the pack survives. So even though my dogs look to me for guidance when it comes to survival of the pack they definitely act more on instinct. My female GSD is very friendly to anyone I allow in the house however, at night it is a different story. She is much more guarded of people who come to the door. They are smart animals and I do believe they look to their leader for guidance... but being human doesn't automatically make you the leader. I also believe they will act on instinct and GSDs have a good bit of intuition as well. 

Topics like this one are interesting and funny at the same time. A lot of our perception will be based on what we see our dogs do, the way we were taught and at times our mindsets.

What some our missing is some of the information or facts is determined by breeds. For instance a pack of King Charles Spaniels to a pack of GSDs or Mals. But that's a different subject. I'm amazed how some think like humans and not like dogs. A dog has two mentalities; It will LEAD OR IT WILL FOLLOW.  He/she can only do one or the other. He/she will be just as happy following IF there is a leader, a ALPHA. But if there is no ALPHA then he/she will step into that position. That is just how they are wired. Doesn't matter about domestication or how many years of domestication.

For those who call the "pack mentality" crap or rubbish, I wonder if you are really in tune with one,  your dogs and two, with quote unquote the Animal Kingdom? The comments of how the dog looks to you as human or alpha or alpha leader is not in the equation. It is a pack structure mentality. No more no less. Strength in numbers and a ALPHA for cohesiveness of the pack, for survival.

Take away the "human" element............. are you saying saying that the dog or pack of dogs can't or won't survive? Highly unlikely. A pack of dogs would kill just as a pack of whatever out in the wild. Look at wild dogs. To eat, to survive.  Now, situation dictates and there are many factors involved that could sway things one way or the other. But some of your comments are, I'll just say opinions. 

Now, why do you think some people have problems with their dogs "not listening"? Or have you ever heard someone say that with one spouse the dog "minds" but with the other spouse the dog rules him or her.

Another example would be if you ever had a puppy. I'm pretty sure that puppy isn't looking to you as a "human" but the ALPHA or PROTECTOR. and if the two of you are somewhere day or night and there is something uncomfortable to him or her ie;; stranger, another animal etc., that pup will come to you, at your side, or close to your position for protection, security because of not knowing "friend or foe". 

Also, some are talking about other things or using examples not pertaining to "ALPHA mentality".

I think that people who don't believe in the alpha and the pack haven't spent time around an established pack of dogs or really know dog language. I will foster 4-8 dogs from the bahamas at any given time and believe me... there is a pack structure and it is very clear when you watch them. It takes only a minute for me to establish that we are now under "my" rules and they are quick to learn my rules. Bahama dogs are quick to follow so there usually aren't any problems however, a GSD is a natural leader so a GSD is more likely to test the rules and try to take over the leadership role. I too find it hard to believe that people don't believe in the alpha/pack structure and think of it as a theory... do you think that some dogs just listen to humans better than others? It is no more theory than the world is round... but unless you are very in tune with dog language and behavior you may not pick up on the fact that their are followers and their are leaders and you just might be a follower in your dog's eyes.

It is absolutely the alpha's job to protect the pack. If I see a strange dog while I am out I am the one that steps in front of my dog and tells the other dog or dogs to get lost. However, if one of these dogs were physically attacking me or a person was attacking me I have do doubt my dog would come to help me fight off this outside member who is threatening the pack.

I forgot to mention also for those that don't believe in a pack structure or Alpha. There have been numerous documentaries on "Animal Planet", "Discovery Channel" or "National Geographic" on these topics. Now we are not talking of Dingos, jackals or hyenas. We're talking of regular dogs for whatever reason are loose, doesn't matter what the breed and have formed a pack roaming the neighborhood or the open fields/plains. Domesticated animals that now run in a pack. Have an Alpha and learn to  hunt and eat in a pack mentality, strategically. And unfortunately some are aggressive and learn to either hurt or kill in a pack.

It was also documented that Katrina dogs formed packs and hunted for food. These were completely domestic dogs that out of necessity to survive formed packs and "hunted" for food. The dogs I foster from the Bahamas are often the same way. They are born on the street and learn how to survive in a pack. Although they are "domestic" dogs it is amazing to watch these dogs and their dog behavior. They are very smart and very intuitive. 

You do know the guy that came up with the whole pack theory concept, has debunked his own theory???.

Pack theory, parent-model theory... A theory is only true until it's debunked. The alpha model was used highly at about the same time dominance theory was big; holding, unfortunately one major overlook: willing submission by members, rather than forced submission by a leader. The "alpha roll" is initiated by the submissive member willing to defer to the leader. Regardless, In the absence of the current leader, a new leader, alpha, will be found within the pack. At the very most basic, a pack operates with a leader (alpha, parent) initiating action, and the pack supporting it.

Take a look at this:

http://www.nonlineardogs.com/

Ambi,

For me that's a little vague........................ You make a vague comment then end it with a question mark? Are you asking us? Or stating to us? Or being facetious? Not sure. But type in an article or document or something . I'm not sure just "one" guy came up with this "theory". Maybe if you can scroll through NG's archives (not sure if you can or not) but there were a few episodes on "Animal Packs" and it showed a pack of wild dogs. Showed from puppies to adults and their lives. Showed how they strategical set up to hunt for their kill and what each member of the pack's purpose was. It showed them chasing their target and when they came upon a stream or river bed how each member took a different route to "cut off" their prey's travel direction. This documentary showed the high intelligence of the pack, the Alpha and each member of the pack having a vital role in order for the pack to flourish and survive. It showed the area, (can't remember what you call it), but the area they live in and control where another pack doesn't enter unless they're trying to take over the territory.

Ambi,

For me that's a little vague........................ You make a vague comment then end it with a question mark? Are you asking us? Or stating to us? Or being facetious? Not sure. But type in an article or document or something . I'm not sure just "one" guy came up with this "theory". Maybe if you can scroll through NG's archives (not sure if you can or not) but there were a few episodes on "Animal Packs" and it showed a pack of wild dogs. Showed from puppies to adults and their lives. Showed how they strategical set up to hunt for their kill and what each member of the pack's purpose was. It showed them chasing their target and when they came upon a stream or river bed how each member took a different route to "cut off" their prey's travel direction. This documentary showed the high intelligence of the pack, the Alpha and each member of the pack having a vital role in order for the pack to flourish and survive. It showed the area, (can't remember what you call it), but the area they live in and control where another pack doesn't enter unless they're trying to take over the territory.