Mega Esophagus And Breeders - Page 2

I might be on an island but I don't think the dogs should be removed from the breeding pool. That is, if mega E is truly a recessive trait. If so, it is like any other disease that is recessive. I would not eliminate dogs that are DM carriers either. It would be impossible to elimate every dog who possesses a bloodline that has thrown mega e. plus, you never know what dog could still be a carrier but has yet to throw the disease. I think you just need to make smart breeding decisions until a test can be developed...... Sara

In breeding, there is no way to avoid land mines, but no way am I stepping on the ones I know about.


jmo,

Rik 

Rik,

I agree but it's really the knowing part that is tricky.  One should absolutely avoid breeding a known carrier to another known carrier.  I agree completely!! However, until a test is developed to identify carriers pre-breeding, we just don't know who is capable of producing the disease. It could be thousands and thousands of dogs.....

The key is that both dogs need to be recessive for trait. What if it was a bad role of the dice?  What if you breed the bitch or stud to 20 different animals (hypothetically, of course) and they never produce another mega e puppy?

Until a test is developed, we just don't know how deep in our breed this disease truly is.  Once a test is developed (like DM), we can make sure two carriers are never ever bred toegther so we can prevent a puppy from ever having to suffer with this condition.

Regards,

Sara

Rik,

I will tell you a story I have told before...

I use to breed Arabians.  Back in the day, some foals would die from breedings and nobody knew why.  So, you avoided repeating the breeding and hope it never occurred again.

Well, one day, a test came out to test for this foal death (later called SCID).  Turns out that tons and tons of horses tested as carriers.  Nobody had realized just how prevelant it was in the breed. But, a lot of breeders ripped tests up to maintain value for their animals and foals continued to die.  There was a lot of fear.

Finally,  the top, leading sires tested positive as a carrier.  But, the owners took a different stand.  They took ads out and made it known that he was a carrier.  They still stood him at stud but required that all mares be tested SCID Clear in order to be bred to him.  He went on to be one of the strongest influences that the breed had ever known and never sired another SCID foal.

I understand your fear and applaud your stance on health as I share the same stance.  But, the thing with recessives is that they are tricky and you just don't know when or if they will ever be revealed.  I am hoping a test can be developed to help aid in the identification or animals who have an increased probability to carrier this trait.  But, until then...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

However, we should not repeat breedings to known carriers and we shouold try to maintain some kind of list of carriers for future use.

So, just something to think about.

Sara

Wow, Sara; smart, articulate, & accomplishing things! And you have a gorgeous dog! Nice to know you! (And you like horses, too!) Glad you're on board--jackie harris

Jackie,  Nah....you just caught me on a good day where I *might* have been making a little sense!! 

I am learning a lot on this forum and I thank you for the welcome!!!  

BTW- Hope you are home and feeling better! I tried to upload some puppy pics for you but they were too large.  Of course, being the technologically illiterate person that I am, I could not resize them.

Take Care,
Sara

Geez--we joined about the same time, actually! I love this forum, we found our Wolf here! I've learned so much, & hope to continue to! Thanks for the well wishes, I'm glad to be home & on the mend, my dogs are being hysterically funny about it!

Anyway---SORRY-not trying to hijack an interesting thread! jackie harris

Yes, the forum is pretty educational and I apologize for hijacking as well!!!! 

Sara

hello Sara, enjoyed your input, but will stick to my stance on mega-e. Mega-e is not a disease, it is a physical deformity. There are conditions in the GSD that are often referred to as the genes of death. When people speak of these, they are most often talking about dogs that pass on traits that have an impact on the longevity of the dog. Most often torsion, bloat and mega-e.

There is quite a bit of difference in breeding dogs that one is not aware of this trait being present and continuing to breed after it has shown up, as happened to the OP. To do so and to continue to put pups at risk off on unsuspecting buyers demonstrates a complete lack of ethics.

I would like to say concerning mega-e that while you were breeding horses, I was breeding and exhibiting GSD. Mega-e is not a trait so prevalent that it cannot be avoided. It is very easy to avoid if one chooses to do so. In 25+ years with the GSD, I saw it once on a personal level, heard about it a few times from others.

Just for the record, I also disagree with breeding a known carrier of DM.

best,

Rik

Lani wrote:

I have learned that it only takes one parent (could be sire or dam) with the mega e gene to have affected pups. It IS hereditary, although pups caring the gene may or may not be affected. It is a crap shoot. Some are mildly affected while others are severely affected and must be euthanized. It is a horrible affliction.

Ambiigsd is correct.
 ,   
I wonder if you'd be interested in contributing to a study on mega esophagus. I found this http://www.caninemegaesophagus.org/studies.htm and have written to Dr. Clark and am  participating in the study ing .


I would be very interested in following this train of thought. What is the heritability of Mega E? Is it dominant with incomplete penetration? Simple autosomal recessive? Does anyone KNOW?

As to DM carriers..... I understand that only 20% of at risk dogs ever develop DM. Each to his own, but I would not have any problem owning or breeding a carrier.

---Mary