Epilepsy Do we have a problem

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by pt1 on 29 January 2010 - 13:01

i spoke to dr malcolm willis last year and thats what i was told. i have since brought his genetics on gsds book and its very informative about epilepsy, how its carried and past down thru the generations

by A Shepherd on 29 January 2010 - 13:01

Pt1 you are correct if the gene is carried as a recessive, otherwise if the animal is a fitter itself then the gene is a dominant in which case only one parent is needed to pass the problem on. So if the dog is a carrier and he mates with a female carrier then some pups in the litter can suffer, if the dog is a fitter then more in the litter will suffer as each one recieving his dominant gene will be a sufferer. I hope the females in question have not had any litters.
AS

by A Shepherd on 29 January 2010 - 13:01

Falco et al (1974) concluded that inbreeding increased both the risk of fitting and encouraged early onset of the problem and that inbreeding to one dog increased the chances of the problem. Cunningham and Farnbach (1987)study suggested a genetic basis for much idiopathic epilepsy in likely and urged greater study needed but in the interim it should be considered inherited and avoided as far as possible by not using epileptic cases or their litter mates and by not repeating litters where it occured.
As idiopathic epilepsy usually occurs between the ages of 15 months to 2 years it emphasises the importance of not breeding from anything under 2 years of age.
AS

by Sue B on 29 January 2010 - 14:01

A Shepherd my understanding is of it being an autosomal recessive inherited through both parents where linebreeding to particular dogs on both sire and dam side of the pedigree whether those dogs had been sufferers or carriers, so in that I agree with you. However I have neither heard nor read anything that suggests it is a dominant from one parent except from other posters here. If this is now the latest genetic findings I would very much appreciate if any of you who stated here that it only comes from the one parent , thereby proving it to be a dominant, if you could please point me to that genetic study so I can update my knowledge on this. It would be most appreciated. Thank You.
Regards
Sue b

by Jonah1 on 29 January 2010 - 14:01

A Shepherd. Idiopathic epilepsy is 15 months ta 5 years or more. DUH.

We ad all this wi tha CRUFTS BEST IN SHOW --- HENDRAWENS NIBLUNG OF CHARAVIGNE he wer a fitter imself an was used at stud till he wer caught out so how many other fitters av bin kept under the covers an bin used over the years ??? ya just dunno about that do ya !!!!!!!.

Yeh not just the foreign dogs , all ya alsatianists wanna check how many lines ya got goin back ta CH.AVON PRINCE OF ALUMVALE ( fer one ) via QUADRILLE ETC !.

WE NEED THA TEST FER EPILEPSY REAL FAST !!!!!!!.

by Sue B on 29 January 2010 - 14:01

Jonah1 in all fairness to A Shepherd I think you will find he was possibly quoting from a genetic study which didn't suggest all fits start between these ages but that they USUALLY occur between these ages. Actually reading Willis book produced 1991 he says and I quote verbatum;- "Most GSD's will fit initially between 15 months and 3 years but a few are outside this range with older cases (6 years) usually being quite atypical fitters and possibly not idiopathic cases" End quote.

So as he was referring to Idiopathic cases A Shepherd was correctly quoting a genetic study. I would just like to know where he read about a dominant, if he would be so kind. Thanks.

Regards
Sue b

by paulie on 29 January 2010 - 15:01

Bill Owen put this thread onto the board late last night, even allowing for the late hour, i am staggered that nobody has taken up his offer to pool our resources. with regard to the allegation that the problem lies with Apollo v Dakota, i find this incredible, Bill stated that the link with the unfortunate female who had to be given sleep, was Blerio Reflection, an Apollo son, i myself mated my female Jupaala India to Reflection, and still have in my kennel two females Ute and Ursa, who between them have had five litters with no problems, but probably more relevent was the male Jupaala Ulan at Blerio, who had quite a few bitches, and to my knowledge produced no problems.
As Apollo has been dragged into this topic, i would be very interested in any comments from his owners.

Regards Paul Rattigan.

by Mackenzie on 29 January 2010 - 15:01

I would be interested to hear more from Davey Hall regarding his alleged comments and, if he made them in the first place, perhaps he can say on what basis he has named Apoll v Dakota. Even more interesting is why did he allow his dog to be used if he was in possession of this knowledge and knew it to be in the bloodline of  Zentrums Torra.

Apoll carries some important lines and one notable one is Nero v Hirschel who is behind Bax Luisenstrasse, Pakros d'Ulmantal and Vegas du Haut Mansard, all Siegers!!!!!   I do not think there is epilepsy in this family but it would send a shiver up the spine if this were to be the inherited route. I have a Bax son who has shown no signs of the disease and he is now five years old.

Mackenzie

by petowner on 29 January 2010 - 15:01

IF Apollo did produce epilepsy then where it came from behind in his lines is the worry. I agree with Paul that it would be of interest to hear from Apollo's owners and that of others. Wildmoor has already said there are numerous lines on the ill fated bitch's pedigree that was put to rest so it's not only Apollo that is implicated. I have to agree with Jonah1 that a test for the epilepsy gene is seriously needed now !. Simon.

by Blerio on 29 January 2010 - 16:01

Paul, Thanks for that reminder, The silence from people who may be involved in this sad situation is deafening!! The heart churning tale on the other Epilepsy thread was powerful, and anyone remotely involved, or with relevant information that could be useful to identifying the sauce of this tragic situation who withholds such information, "SHAME ON YOU" and any such people who are later identified should be shunned, striped of any positions of authority, and cast out of this breed. We have in some ways moved on from the 70s but if this problem is allowed to become stagnant, without input from relevant people then God help us, This is something we as a breed need to sort out, If we don't! then we don't have the right to ever moan again about the K.C. not taking genetic problems seriously. "IS ANYBODY THERE" !!!!!!!!! Bill Owen. P.S. Don't worry about who is right or wrong, is it recessive or not, some of these studies are 20 years plus old. let's talk about what we are gonna do about it.

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