IS THIS STUD DOG JRD TESTED ????????.

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by Csense on 19 October 2009 - 21:10

I'm surprised Jetski has been used at stud as there have already been problems with the EL DEVINO line.

I haven't herd of any Zasko progeny with JRD.

by Videx on 19 October 2009 - 21:10

JRD does not show any symptoms until the level of "JRD penetration" is probably over 50%. Surely most people know that we humans can survive with ONE kidney. Perhaps not bazza!

Many dogs with JRD have less than 50% deterioration in their kidney function, and may live normal lives. They will still pass it on to their progeny, at VARIOUS LEVELS.

Think of HD, a litter may contain many different scores. JRD is similar in that offspring may contain different levels of JRD penetration, or %. Many or all showing no symptoms. Much like HD = showing NO limping - that is why we XRAY.

Two particular problems exist amongst many readers towards JRD in GSD.
1) DENIAL - much like any other hereditary disease.
2) Low intelligence - this seriously impedes their understanding of the disease. (a bazza & jago problem)

by bazza on 20 October 2009 - 06:10

Tigermouse, did you read the above.... Many dogs with JRD may lead normal lives, they will still pass it on to thier progeny, at various levels. You also ask how many have been tested and results not disclosed, i too would like to know. So without knowing how can one determine there is a major problem. Maybe that is why you have not heard of any Zasko progeny with JRD. The owner of this dog may be selective with breeding this dog now, but what about before he tested as a carrier? Please don't get me wrong i am not at all convinced there is a major problem, but if a dog of mine tested as a carrier it would not be used at stud again, end of story. You either test and accept the results because you believe in the test, or you don't test as you do not believe the test is valid. Until breeders all test for JRD, and disclose results with actual names of dogs, we will never know just how bad this really is. Mr Payne, you are right i do not understand all your scientific mumbo jumbo, all your figures, numbers and percentages, nor do i wish to. I do however have an interest in actual cases reported by name, then i will decide if JRD is a major problem and not a figment of your vivid imagination. Of course you would love it if you were correct, and lap up all the credit for bringing this "ticking time bomb" to our attention. That would surely boost your already over inflated ego!!!!!

by petowner on 20 October 2009 - 08:10

It has been very busy on here since I posted. Not the responses I was hoping for.
Jaymesie51.   I did say the same to the couple re the breeder, they had asked them about any health problems , the breeder was somewhat vague hence my post in the beginning. I have since suggested they look elsewhere for a puppy. Csense.   I had thought there had been or could  potentially be problems with Bygoly el devino from reading info on the Videx website. I am surprised that Jetski is being used for stud purposes , maybe his owner doesn't know these things. Tigermouse. You have raised a very good but concerning point , just how many dogs are currently used at stud that do have the JRD that the owners have kept the results a secret ?. Thank you for posting the link to Jetski's owners website, I will pass it on.
Mark3.   I do not know if Jetski has had his elbows scored or not , I had hoped that his owner would have come to light to give more info. the couple who want a puppy will no doubt look elsewhere now.
I don't know the ins and outs of Zasko , it seems there is no medical evidence from any of his progeny with JRD . I would have expected there to have been some because of the amount of progeny he must have in this country. I have not read the article about him in the breed council magazine , I will try to find someone that has the magazine so I can read it. Bazza.   As you are intent on condemming both Zasko and his owner you should be questioning his owner direct.
Is there a test for this JRD in England ?, if there is I would consider testing my own bitches.

by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 09:10

JRD exists, and it exists in GSD
ONE major problem with JRD is that when the penetration is over 50% THE GSD DIES!
I have never heard of HD actually KILLING a GSD.

The second major problem with JRD is that it lurks silently undiagnosed at levels under 50% - it can then spread widely and numerically, and if a popular stud dog happens to be a "homozygote" carrier, JRD will quickly saturate our breed.
This not fantasy, it has already happened with several other breeds.

ONE major plus with JRD is: mate CLEAR to CLEAR = ALL OFFSPRING WILL BE JRD CLEAR

I am NOT interested in boosting my ego, believe me if you knew from where I have come from to what I have achieved in my life, and what my children have achieved, you would easily understand that I have no need to boost my ego.

Ignorant people deny the existence of a disease and a diagnostic test. It happened many years ago with Hip Dysplasia. It happens with almost every disease and diagnostic test.

Their attitude is:
"don't accept the test" = "no test" = "no identified problem" = "no problem"

I STATE: EVERY "UNTESTED" GSD IS A POTENTIAL "JRD CARRIER"
and much worse, may be a "homozygote carrier"

I know two GSD kennels that are JRD Clear - Nikonis & Videx
When I use a JRD 'untested' male, I will have any offspring I retain in my kennel JRD tested.
If I test the whole litter I will add the cost of the JRD test, 135$US approx £85 to the price of each puppy.

by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 09:10

for scientific information
(you will see German Shepherd Dogs referred to several times)
visit
http://www.videxgsd.com/jrd_updates.htm
JUVENILE RENAL DYSPLASIA (JRD)
"UPDATES"
go to
WORLD INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ORGANIZATION
Pub. No.: WO/2009/092171

then click on READ HERE

don't miss the 'tabs' near the top of the 'online' document
these take you to different sections

by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 09:10

Reading some of your posts above, many of you want to STOP a dog being offered at STUD because he has been tested a JRD carrier, and then go on to say you don't believe in the JRD test.
That is a clear sign of "low intelligence".

If your own GSD have not been JRD tested, they are "potentential JRD carriers" - don't forget that!

I will now write that on my website!

by bazza on 20 October 2009 - 10:10

Petowner, i am not intent on condeming any individual, unlike yourself in your first post. You should maybe have taken your own advice and dealt with this privately. I do however have a major problem with anyone who does a test, and ignores the results of said test. Mr Payne, i do not deny the existance of JRD, only the extent to which it affects the breed. There must be a massive amount of ignorant( your words not mine) people in this breed, as not many seem to be testing for JRD. Not many accept this test that is available, why? are you saying they are all ignorant? Tigermouse posted above she does not test as she does not believe in the test, is she also ignorant? Petowner did not even know there was a test available but would consider testing, is he/she ignorant? All your close breeder mates who do not test, are you calling them ignorant too? Good for you and Nikonis, but there would have to be a hell of a lot more kennels on that list to convince me JRD is rife.

by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 10:10

Many who are JRD testing are NOT publishing their results. Certainly NOT publishing the "carriers".

I do NOT receive the JRD Test results - they are currently private tests & private results.

The only JRD test results I received or receive are those where the GSD owners agreed for me to receive, and signed for me to receive.

I have been informed of several "JRD Carrier" results by owners, on a strictly confidential basis, and they have "stopped breeding" with the dog, and in some cases re homed them. This avoids the STIGMA on their kennel and stops people like you commenting on them and their kennel. I fully understand their decision, however it stops other breeders identifying carrier lines, and carriers.

This is why I know we have a "potential JRD time bomb" within GSD, and I am "protecting my kennel from it". I will stop writing any more comments on here about JRD, others can make their own decisions and live with them.

I am not interested in convincing you or anyone else. I do care about our GSD breed so I have done what I could do. END OF!

As for 'tigermouse' and others - the scientific genetic JRD test and patents have now been published, to deny it now is plainly STUPID. I have explained this form of stupidity above, sometime called DENIAL, and "the ostrich syndrome". It is actually FEAR!

You bazza, Jago, pencil, and other anonymous people will understand FEAR!

by tigermouse on 20 October 2009 - 11:10

IMHO I truly believe that the following should be taken into consideration by doggenes

The test kits should be sterile.
The test should be done by a vet, In conjunction with an identity check. (microchip/tattoo)
Results should be public and a database of results formed.

If a Proper sterile test kit is provided, and the swab taken by a licensed veterinary practitioner, then I will test my dogs.
The fact is that the test kits provided are easily tampered with.
Consider this say one dog in a kennel is tested clear what is to stop someone using this dog over and over again?
The thing I have come to realize is that some breeders will go to any lengths, and we must make it difficult for them to play the system.

Going slightly OT but surly ED is a more pressing issue yet few breeders take this matter seriously enough.
Again with HD and ED some breeders x-ray then don't submit results. It sickens me...

David, there is no need to be rude, I am not a genius and have never laid claim to be one,
and I don't think I am ignorant ... dyslexic yes LOL
But I do think I have a valid point,
and as mark3 said the proof of the pudding.

Eye problems crop up from time to time as well as heart defects. There are tests available but hardly anyone does them and I think JRD falls into this category for me it is not proven to be a major issue...

Any statements I make are purely MY OPINION and I am not trying to influence anyones decision regarding testing.
I have not denied JRD exists I have just questioned the test kits and the extent of the problem

Kindest regards,
Tracie.

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