Is this possible? - Page 2

The Hobo dog - at least the original one - was a stray - unknown pedigree. Most likely a husky mix.


You know, this board never fails to amaze me with the supposed 'facts' people give. (Sorry, Molly, I like you, and think you're a great dog person and breeder, but you blew it this time.)

Here it is from the SOURCE: London, The Dog Who Made the Team, page 8:

The family he rented [the rooms] from was also keeping for him a German Shepherd pup he had bought eight months before.

This pup, was, of course, London.

Elsewhere in the same book: Once, on a hunting trip in the Dakotas, Chuck...left London for a short visit with a well-bred German shepherd who was chosen to mother London's pups. (pg. 90-91)

This was the litter which produced Thorne.

A year after Thorne, Toro, son of London by Kola of Santa Monica canyon, joined the household.


Also, there was a post by someone on this board who said Chuck bred his dogs to a kennel in Ontario. Since the series The Littlest Hobo did a lot of filming in Ontario, that's a very likely possibility.

I think Chuck kept the lineage of his dogs private, to prevent any one kennel from making money off of their fame, as happened with Lassie.  Fortunately, enough time has gone by now that it would be difficult, if not impossible to re-create the line.

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/262625.html

The poster (Candis) says:

The dog was sharp as was his siblings the dog origanated from Solitude Kennels owned by Anne Schultz and her lawyer husband. Annie was a short happy go lucky German lady, she adored her dogs to death.. I can still remember her saying sveety you must clean up de's cookies! LOL meaning get to work on the dog doo!

She, had a large kennel which housed well over 77 indoor out door kennels her Hobo's lived indoors with her except for two. Princess and Jada. At one time she had registrations for the dogs.. Littlest Hobo and then the dogs name but we have to remember that was a long time ago. Annie was 66 yrs old when I began working for her and that would be 27 yrs ago a lot of her dogs sold across Canada and the Usa. What made her was the Movie The Littlest Hobo. These dogs were recognized as well bred, confident with the ability to do the job.. I would love to be around another true Hobo today. But that would be very hard to do as we all know the lines are gone.

www.youtube.com/watch


Here are some stats where as proving that the Hobo was a purebred and not mixed with any other breed.

German Shepherd Facts ( German Shepherd Dog ) @ Shepherds.cc ....1960s, the littlest Hobo The littlest Hobo is a Canadian television series... AKC Dog Registration Statistics" shepherds.cc/cgi-bins.cgi?search=german+shepherds&

NationalMaster-Encyclopiedia: German Shepherd Dogs
The Canadian Kennel Club 9 or CKC is the primary registry body for... Opening for the 1979 TV series The Littlest Hobo
 

Finally, here are two photos of London from the book. I don't see anything in his structure that says he's not a purebred GSD.

I agree, there is nothing in his structure that screams anything other than GSD..... But what gets me is that Annie seems to have bred for color, 1st and workability 2nd.

Annie?

No, sorry, despite what Candis says, the original Hobo (London) did NOT come from Ontario. The rooms Chuck had waiting for him after he was fired as the Chicago White Sox pitcher were in California, not Canada!  Also, the book about London, Chuck's very first dog, was published in 1963, 20 years earlier than the dogs Candis is talking about.

I don't know what kennel London came from (I have a suspicion, but no proof) however, it would make no sense for a young man living in California to purchase a dog from Ontario, even if the time frame were correct.

Speaking of 'workability' it depends on how you define 'workability'. NO ONE has EVER reached the level of training Chuck did with these dogs! I saw them perform in person, and it was just AWESOME. To prove his training didn't rely on gimmicks, he would even have a member of the audience come down and give the dogs commands. He could even do this when he was out of sight or out of the room.

There are other jobs for 'working' dogs than schutzhund.  And Chuck's dogs were a little 'sharp'. I would have to dig out my other books, but IIRC, he once left them in an open convertible while he went into a nearby building on business. Some kids started to tease the dogs. The dogs jumped out of the car, and chased them off. When Chuck raced back outside to intervene, the kids were nowhere to be seen, and the dogs were all back in the car, looking VERY innocent! 

Here's another lilttle quote from the book. Chuck was being bullied by an umpire:

"Get going, Eisenmann. G'wan. I'll call the cops. G'wan, get outta here!"

With these words Manley raised his fist. It was an umpire's classic gesture of dismissal, to wave a player to the showers. But Manley let that clenched fist pass too close to Chuck's nose...

If Chuck could take it, London definitely would not. Onto the field he charged. With a snarl and a vicious show of teeth he lunged at the plate umpire, slamming his paws on his chest. Up in that position, a German Shepherd can kill. On his hind legs, as tall as the man, he bared fangs within inches of the man's throat.....

London, his big paws planted squarely on the umpire's body, somehow got him turned around and began pushing him off the field. No one lifted a hand to stop him. He pushed the vanquished enemy all the way to the stands.
 

A photographer from Life magazine was present at the game, and the pictures he took of the incident were featured in the next issue of LIfe. London was soon a nation-wide celebrity.

Londay may not have been a conformation champion, but he had the true spirit of a German Shepherd!

I also noticed that the later dogs, the ones from the 80s reflected the trend that started with the American showline dogs around that time. They had much longe upper thighs than the original dogs, and long, sloping backs. They do not at all resembled the pictures I posted above.

The reverse mask is not uncommon in dogs that go back to Lord vom Gleisdreieck and other DDR bloodlines. For example:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/393332.html



Another one: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/426227.html

Christine, you are right...Lord was known for producing dogs with reverse mask!!

The dog BlackthornGSD posted reminds me of of my boy Rock, the grandfather to the dog i posted above.




And when he was a puppy had did have a mask.


He was a few days old in that pic, i lost the rest of his puppyhood pics during Katrina.

His pedigree is http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/621006.html

Here's another. He has Lord vom Gleisdreieck in his pedigree.


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/615605.html


 
His mother is a sable with reverse mask:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/261135.html

Why would someone think that a maskless dog is mixed?  I think people forget that some of the Rin Tin Tins didn't have a mask.







Personally I love the look myself and would love to reproduce it.  Here's my boy at 17 months, mostly DDR lines, prelim OFA Good hips, normal elbows, DM clear.  Don't mind the stuff in the background, it was after a windstorm that blew toys around outside.

I was just looking around for some info on the hobo dogs and found this thread. :)  I have wondered about the actual breed of these dogs ever since I saw them stand next to a german shepherd on the show as a kid. I can't remember that exact episode now but I recently found one at least that shows both types of colorations, as well as a pair of the hobo dogs together. It's called "The Rookie" and I think at least canadian residents will be able to watch from this link: http://watch.ctv.ca/the-littlest-hobo/season-5/the-littlest-hobo-ep-511-rookie/#clip270106

What had me wondering about the dogs wasn't that they had a reverse mask but the varying shades of black, brown, tan and white. It's the addition of the white markings on face, chest and feet in such harsh contrast with those colors that had me thinking they were more likely some kind of hybrid. While reverse masks happen why is it that we don't see more of such a color blend in german shepherds popping up? The color variations I come across seem to be two toned with dark and light, with light sometimes fading to a creamy white shade. The only exception I have learned of were the panda german shepherds lately but the markings are still quite different, looking more solid and patchey. Perhaps the hobos were reverse mask sable "pandas"? :p

I believe pure bred is possible, but so is mixed and there are a few breeds and mixes out there that look similar. Today I saw some alaskan huskies that had such exactly similar markings which is what had me thinking about this again. I hope a solid answer comes around one of these days, but it's not a big deal if not. I'll just always be curious. :)

Yan, please read my post above. I know someone who was friends with Chuck, and bred her dogs to his. His dogs WERE purebred, BUT Chuck carefully kept all pedigree info private to prevent people from trying to exploit his dogs and their lineage.  The Littlest Hobo was originally  filmed in black and white, and Chuck felt the light background colour helped the dogs show up better on B&W T.V. Also, it was the colour of the original London, which Chuck acquired as a pup, long before he ever dreamed his dogs would be TV stars.

As for the light background colour, it pops up when there are white GSD's in the pedigree. My Shiloh pup is a good example.