Over-Socialization? - Page 2

Working dogs, I wasn't implying to nor do I let my pups "just sit at home for months". But taking them with you to hang out with you is one thing; making special effort to "show them the world" should not be necessary to have a sound dog. If you are NEVER home to share your work and life with your pup then by all means, it should be with you. Why have it if your never home? But having a pup "stay at home" if that's where your work is that can involve your dog, that's far from "wasting the pup's youth". "At home" is where my pups get to be with me while I'm working and they get an education. For example, learning to behave around and work with live stock WITH ME ALWAYS there teaching them. They are "moving forward" from the time they can walk and after, oh, say six or seven months,I might have to go all the way to town, so I'll have the youngster jump into the backseat of the truck (they learned to "load up" by driving around on the farm), and I'll take them into the store with me while I'm buying stuff. They take it all in stride, just another interesting day for them. If I spent all the time you suggest a person spend driving my pup around, going to malls, airports and where ever else you take your dogs, I wouldn't have time to get my work done. Plus, my dog would be bored of riding around looking at uninteresting things and people and not ACCOMPLISHING anything worthwhile.(not to mention wasting gas!)

joanro
Guess we are at a standstill. We live 'in' town.
Seems we both omitted some pertinent details too,
such as, we don't do these kinds of things
EVERY day, maybe once a week? twice?
No way would we have a puppy that NEEDED
to be taken out and about EVERY day.

We don't have a farm and farm chores to do.
So we can't take the pup out when we milk the cows
we don't have, or collect the eggs from the chickens
we don't have, or feed the horses we don't have.

Is it so wrong to get a pup out and around?
Do you really think people do it because their pups
are weak?

If you lived 'in town', you would likely have a
little different outlook as well. When your neighbor
is about 8' away, manners count! Although, it
seems to only be that way when you have large
breed dogs, evidently small breeds get a free
ride in most cities

It's important for 'city people' to have well
mannered dogs, especially when those dogs
are large breeds. We certainly don't 'drag'
our puppies all over the place because they
are pissing their pants at the sight of something
new, we do it to both bond with the pup, show
him something new, and wear his ass out.
We take advantage of 'busy' environments
to do focus work etc. Ever practice a sit/down
on the moving pedway? We can only find those
in airports. Those are 'dog friendly' places.

If you feel thats unneccessary for a puppy,
so be it. Your opinion. Just as I have mine,
(when I am allowed to ).

I think you just automatically assume when people
are getting their puppies 'out in the world' that they
'have' to, thats not always the case. We like to do
some fun obedience at busy places, practice platz,
hier/focus  etc.

So should we just do obedience in our yard
and wait till the pup is 6-7 mos old?

Do your puppies also not see any people during this time?
or do you wait until their are 6-7 mos to do that too?
Sorry,  makes no sense to me.

We have ill mannered kids in our neighborhood,
it's important that the pup learns 'manners', ie;
don't jump on little Susie or Billy and steal
their ice cream, ball, doll etc.

We have friends that come for dinners etc,
our dogs have to have manners, we don't
want to 'have' to crate them when company
is here. So the pup starts learning from day one
that it arrives here.

If one is is worried about 'socializing' to get a
dog/puppy through 'life', well, don't worry,
that will always show in the end.
You cannot build a brick house on a
foundation of loose sand.
Genetics will always trump conditioning.

By the way, not everyone reading this will
HAVE a sound solid nerve/well bred pup,
so do I think it's important for them to get
the 'average' pup out, YES!  If it allows them
to make a better companion of their dog/pup,
by all means YES, socialize the hell out of
that pup.

It is kind of funny though to sit back and
watch a 'working dog' person with a puppy
and a 'pet person' with theirs, it's a whole
different approach to 'socializing'.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

There is a tremendous difference between
socializing and 'conditoning' and I think you
are assuming most people do the latter
when out with their pups.

Hey, wds, don't get so defensive. I don't "assume" anything people do with their dogs, including you. This thread is addressing "over socialization", that is what I was commenting on. You don't have to justify what you do with your dogs to me. YOU are assuming too much and making comments that probably make you feel good but are way off base. I think you are being presumptuous ,accusing people of not raising their dogs properly, when you obviously have a problem relating to their lifestyle. You also have a habit of changing things up to support your one sided argument, such as: get pups "out in the world" , instead of "SHOW them the world". Big difference between the two. Socializing IS conditioning. As far as when in their lives my pups see people; don't get your panties in such a wad, they are not deprived. By the way, I don't have any cows anymore. Two years ago, I butchered the last one and put it in the freezer in little white packages, with my dog by my side chowing down on fresh green tripe. Chickens, yes we have them. And my young pups learn manners around them, like, not to jump on little "cluck-cluck" while she's laying the egg the pup gets to eat, shell and all when cluck-cluck gets off the nest. Yes, I love the farm life, it's like living in a Disney movie with wild turkeys walking around, deer jumping, and little bunnies running like hell to escape my GSs jaws inches from it's little back. I find the country/farm life is much more enriching for young growing dogs than sucking in exhaust fumes every day watching the people walk by. To each his own. You sound like you are in the "over socialization" camp Ace is referring to. An "average" pup should not not have to be "shown the world" to be above functional at best. If that is what you consider necessary for an "average" pup, then the GSD really is in "deep shit."(official farm terminology) I am NOT advising or advocating that anyone, new owner or old owner like yourself, raise your pups the way I raise mine. It would not work since you have asphalt and concrete for them to romp on, mine have "the good earth". Seriously, though, Ace was asking about recommendation for over socializing and I simply stated that for MY pups, that is not a prerequisite for turning out a sound, sane dog.

I like the statement above concerning socialization vs. conditioning. There is a difference.
A sound puppy/young dog will try and explore the world he finds himself in and I do believe in exposing them to that world.

I have spent quite a bit of time in the past hauling weak nerved dogs around with a bag of treats for strangers to give out. I choose not to do this any further and I do not fault anyone who does. But if a dog can't handle the normal occurences of everyday life, it will be evident fairly early. I have decided life is too short to spend trying to instill something the dog was not born with.

jmo,

Rik

Rik, with all due respect, you are describing TRAINING. Strangers hand feeding treats to TEACH it to approach is training. You're right,socialization should be no more involved than exposure of the pup to new, NORMAL things in life. That, is exercising and conditioning the mind of a pup.(ie. Socializing).

Perhaps people are over-stressing socialization for no other reason than to stress to new owners that it isn't acceptable to own a dog simply as yard art.

Perhaps people are over-stressing socialization for no other reason than to stress to new owners that it isn't acceptable to own a dog simply as yard art.

I think that's it

Also, "over- stressing over- socialization" for the reason that so many pups are born with weak nerves and crappy temperaments. And so the blame can be put on the new owner for not "showing the pup the world" when complaints start rolling in.

"'over stressing socialization' for the reason that so many dogs are born with weak nerves and crappy temperaments and so the blame can be put on the new owner for not 'showing the pup the world' when complaints start rolling in."

So you're saying that it should be ok to just chain the dog to a tree and leave it there so long as it has good solid nerves?

Keith, where do you see anything in my post that equates to that ludicrous statement? WTF!!!