Don't Pet My Puppy...confused? - Page 2

I find the best dogs for sport and Police work to be confident, alert and comfortable around people and different environments.  A dog with a slight insecurity can also make a good K-9 prospect because of it's wary, slightly untrusting view of strangers, as long as they can go forward with aggression.  Overall, I prefer an aloof dog that has no fear of strangers, no fear of new environments and confident to handle new challenges.  For sport, I find that well socialized, confident dogs that are not afraid of any decoy or anyone else seem to do better. 

JMO,

Jim

Jim, was boomer touched a lot by strangers when he was a puppy?
I know you now say he doesn't like to be touched by strangers, so I'm wondering if they turn out like they do regardless of socialization (the stranger petting part).

I'm just thinking of my own dogs, some I socialized more than others but that didn't seem to make much of a difference in the final product.

Zep, I always remember what a good friend of mine who is also a very experienced dog trainer with an animal behavior education said years ago....the only thing two trainers can agree on is what the third trainer is doing wrong.

I socialized my puppies under controlled conditions.  What I mean is that my puppies are protected from bad experiences with people and other dogs.  I took my dogs to places where the people were dog savy and the dogs were pretty neutral when meeting a new puppy.  Leerburg has some old fashioned ideas and I guess they work for him (he also has some interesting ones that I have added to my "toolbox").  I do not let anyone pet them when I am working them and they have a harness on that states pretty clearly "please don't pet, working dog in training".  Some people think it is ok to pet them anyway, most understand when I explain why they can't.  When my dogs are old enough and confident enough, I am a little more open to experiences for them but I still feel it is my job to protect them from those stupid clueless owners who believe their dog is being "friendly" when in fact the dog is giving all kinds of red flag warnings that it is not friendly and those people that are clueless when meeting dogs, like the two middle school girls that squealed in delight at the top of their lungs startling me and the dogs when my dog licked her hand, or the child who's dad said, go give the nice dogs a big hug (eek).

Dogs are social animals anyway, they have favorite dog friends and dogs they don't care for, and they should be allowed to socialize when not working.  Each of my dogs had a best friend, Ronin had Sophie a Boxer.  My son drove from Michigan to Florida and stopped in Georgia where Sophie's family had moved two years prior.  Ronin and Sophie picked up right where they left off and were inseperable for days, they slept next to each other and everything.  Both of them moped when my son finally had to leave with Ronin (they recognize each other when we Skype).

Sorry, got a little long winded

brynjulf,

The pup, while inititaly startled, still hangs with the lab, after an "episode" she will give the lab a wide birth for a while but soon seems to forget it. I think I will stay more diligent there and try to keep that from happening in the first place.

Jim,

That seems to be the clubs thinking as I was talking to people, meet and greet and be nice to the "normal" people who arn't a "threat" so she understands what/who a "bad guy" is when it comes to that.


Zep--

"I always remember what a good friend of mine who is also a very experienced dog trainer with an animal behavior education said years ago....the only thing two trainers can agree on is what the third trainer is doing wrong."


That is the same thing said of horse trainers.

I just skimmed over Ed's article and I agree with it. A pup can be well socialized and not be petted by others. They can see other people and know there is no threat and that the only fun/treats are with his handler. They can be correct around other people but they have no value to the dog. This way you never get the "My pup now just wants to run up to everyone, people wise." Why would you want this in any dog? Let alone one that you train in Schh? Now you go out and training the dog and it has to do what you want to get a treat or petting as a reward. Those other people over there pet him up and make a fuss over him and he doesn't have to do anything. In a dogs mind which is better??? Now let's heel through the group. See any issues that could pop up here? Dog sees club memeber "Pets-A-lot" and there he goes....  Also if the dogs sees everyone as a "friend" what happens at the house when the guy who just came into the yard isn't a "Friend"?

My dogs are fed, trained and titled by me. The only other person that pets them (breifly) is my young son for obvious reasons. That being said I can take them anywhere, even around crowds of people and they under control and have no issues.

Rick

I used to read alot on that site. After following that articles advice I ended up with a 6 month old puppy who hated everyone he seen!  LOL! Tooks tons of socialization to turn that around. Now he is nuetral to strangers, which is ideal to me. Its a pain to have one barking at everyone, LOL!

"That seems to be the clubs thinking as I was talking to people, meet and greet and be nice to the "normal" people who arn't a "threat" so she understands what/who a "bad guy" is when it comes to that."

Believe me, a dog doesn't need anyone to pet him to know the person that's a real threat.

Slamdunc--  about your comment "For sport, I find that well socialized, confident dogs that are not afraid of any decoy or anyone else seem to do better." I agree with you. In the past 5yrs or longer I have seen this as well. If you are pertaining to getting higher scores on the trial field. Unfortunately that is where the prey barking in the blind came from; because there is no threat in the blind just bark and this guy will play with me.

That's why I like the new rule changes in the protection work for IPO. 

In the blind the "Guarding must be powerful and focused to the helper."  Also

"During the escape, the dog MUST show power and fight.
a. A dog with a less than full grip but fighting and showing power will have less of a point
deduction than the dog that is full and hopping along for the ride.
b. If the dog has the chance to get a full grip and doesn’t, then it cannot be full points, even
on the escape with good fighting. But if the running or other circumstance was the
cause of the less than full grip, and everything else is strong, then the dog may be
awarded full points.
c. Full grip AND fighting will be full points."

MindHunt,

Love that saying too!

ramgsd,

Everyone at the club I visited was meeting and greeting and petting and playing, when it came time for the work, the dogs worked even though there was a crowd pf praising petters and fun doggies on the sidelines. Now it's my first time there, but that looks like pretty good training to ignore all that love waiting there. :)

How's a dog going to feel when the judge wants to look at his teeth or touch a males jiggly bits if he's not used to stranger touching?

Zep--

This is an interesting thread.

I own an extremely good natured GSD that really likes people and other dogs. I live in a downtown neighbourhood so it would be very difficult for me to own a dog that hated people or other dogs (liability is a real concern). In answer to Rick's questions- I've found that context very much matters. When I tell her to heel through a group of people (with or without dogs) she knows to focus on me. When I'm hiking alone with her on deserted forest trails, she's a very different dog than when we are out walking in our downtown neighbourhood- she's very protective of me.