A2..tO AN A3 - Page 2

jade you did not inquire to these people about a showline puppy at all. you contacted them and started harrassing them nonstop for 2 weeks. i know them. my guess is because you must consider them competition. they are honest people and understand hip ratings as well as you do. you are indeed entitled to your own opinion and so is everyone else. you need to stop bothering people. there are many many breeders who use a3 dogs for whatever their reasons. so many times a dog will have a different rating at a different age and a difference with OFA and the SV. you are on a personal tirade. you were probably told to mind your own business because you have repeatedly contacted them over and over and for what? why did you single them out to contact? when people purchase a puppy or an adult it is their responsibility to check things out and to do their own homework and when a breeder tells me that I can contact their vet and other people that have purchased puppies from them it tells me alot.they have nothing to hide.

  What good is the total picture, as someone stated, if a dog is dysplastic.,Dysplastic dogs suffer tremendously. Care should be given not to create this problem ,no matter how beautiful, how great the working possibilites are.

......i indeed did contact these people to inquire about a puppy for someone..it never got that far ..as i inquired about the hips first.... and when told it was an a2  to an a3 ....i should have  just de ded..but i was curious ...as these dogs were imports..why someone would purchase an a2 and an a3 to use in a breeding program..i am still very curious..but ..im out....gsdhund since you joined just to post your comment..im sure you do know these people..live real close....also i bet.....a dios

gdssports.

I answered a simple question, as with all, it is my opinion...........I answered the question to the best of my knowledge......I've asked many, many people why and why not. Our club doesn't allow our members to do such a thing.

Yes one has to take into consideration each "whole dog"........but one also has to have their limitations. This happens to be one of mine. 

The OFA's records show that near 20 percent of all German Shepherds x-rays that are sent in are certified as mild or worse........we're not even talking about borderlines here. Who knows what the actual percentage is at large...

HD can be very painful and even crippling. why wouldn't a breeder do his or her best to reduce this number? I cannot fathom a breeder promoting such a thing which seems to be what is happening when the breed a2 to an a3 (and worse).  This is an ethical question. Is it OK to breed to improve color, or drive while knowing you are also breeding to worsen hips? I answered that question for myself.

Don't you think that I checked to make sure the Hanny and Zamb had a hips before I bought her. Had she been bred to an
a(3),  a2 or worse, I would have passed her up. As I will not support such a thing by purchasing her. (sometimes, limitations are hell) While looking for a mate for Hero, which Hanny is not, I passed up many, many because of their fast normal, and worse hip scores.

In the horse world there is an old saying "no hoof, no horse"  the same can be said about dogs, "no hip, no dog".

I have never touted myself as a guru, just someone that spends many hours a day learning, checking pedigrees, checking hip ratings of siblings and puppies.

Once again, this is just my opinion,

Sitasmom,
There is more of a risk when breeding OFAe or OFAg to OFAe & OFAg dogs, that come from litters or parents that aren't strong bloodlines for hips.......again..when one breeds, ....the entire(whole) animal must be considered.  I guess you can't understand that..?
You think it's un-ethical to breed for the "entire dog"...but it's not un-ethical to breed "less than" dogs, as long as the dog's that are being bred have "great" hip ratings?
Now you have "hips".....maybe???.....and nothing more.........

I would gladly breed a a2 or a3 dog with a strong genetic background for stable hips, that posses the temperment, character, (working ability) AND structure...over ANY OFA excellent, OFA good OR A-normal dog that DOESN'T meet the same criteria.  There is no reason to breed to any dog simply because it has a "high hip rating", over a better dog that has  "lower rated" hips......there is more to sacrifice in this breed than just hips.....and some of us are not wanting to sacrifice anything.
KNOWING what "specific bloodlines" produce takes alot of time to learn.
There are somethings in life you learn by years of "experience" and can't be taught by simply reading.....
But as always, to each their own......best wishes to you.
And......wow...never heard of any club that dictates the club dogs must all be OFAg /a-normal or better to be considered for breeding purposes????????

from my last post.........
"Yes one has to take into consideration each "whole dog"........but one also has to have their limitations. This (a3 or worse hips) happens to be one of mine.".............."just someone that spends many hours a day learning, checking pedigrees, checking hip ratings of siblings and puppies".



We have a very high ethical standard in our club we breed to the standard, for workability, conformation, temperment and we do not breed borderline, a3 a2 or worse. The seasoned professionals teach us and guide us."

Sitasmom,
FIRST of all.......no one should breed "border line" dysplastic hips...and no one even hinted to such a thing...so be careful when "back stepping".
Second of all...LOVE how you "pick" pieces of your posts.....instead of your entire sentences......including your
"perspective" of A2 hips.. &  the statement that your club does not allow to do such a thing.......your ignorance continues to shine  thru......
I'm sure that the breeders & owners of the VA dogs & BSP dogs that have A2 or A3 hips/elbows, kick themselves in the ass for even considering the thought of their "un-ethical "breedings and their "non worthy" dogs contributing to the future of the breed..........
I'm also as sure.....that the WDA, UScA, DVG & SV, are just as "devastated" that there are so many un-ethical clubs,
that would even consider their members breeding...... titled, KKL dog with "certified" A2 or A3  BREEDING worthy hips......
....it's a good thing that they have you (with all your experience & wisdom) & your very HIGHLY ethical club...to save the breed, from the rest of us!

I suggest you bark up another tree...........buying a dog, reading some books, searching the web and adding "water"...does NOT make you an instant expert, as you try soooo hard to portray.
YEARS and YEARS of experience can......before you "preach" you must have "practiced"......

Everyone is entitled to breed to and from the dogs that they choose.....but when you make statements regarding "ethics", you better watch where you toss your pebble......
And this is MY OPINION.....

I believe that fair (a3) is as low as I would go and then with great reservation. I would have to check carefully all the siblings and progeny as well as the siblings progeny very closly.  If any of them had hip issues I'd have to take a huge step back.

If I had an a2 I would do my best to find sutable a2 or a1 mates, i do not believe i would want go the wrong direction.

Sorry my limitations are higher then you feel are necessary. They are my self imposed limitations and I am not forcing them on anyone but myself. Just because we do not agree, doesnt meat you have to take is personally.

this chart is a bit misleading because,

HD-SV: HD a-normal (a1) = E,G & F
HD-SV: HD a-fast normal (a2) = borderline
HD-SV: HD a-Noch Zugelassen (a3) = mild HD
.............
HD-Ausland (a6) from another country

Oh no.......not double stepping my dear!
You perfectly stated that you would NEVER consider A3 dogs!!!..... and  A2 dogs ONLY if considering to breed to A1,and the entire pedigree would have to be A1 at LEAST 3-4 generations back!!!..... because it was un-ethical to breed them otherwise!......and lets not forget.....YOUR CLUB.....has this extremely 'Higher Ethical"  rules & standards.....and PROHIBITS such A2 & A3 dogs from being bred!

You are creating an ignorant "impression" of yourself to others........my HIGHLY ETHICAL opinion is.. to stop before you cannot "type" your self out!
"Your so-called limitations are HIGHER??......."new one"......you have NO IDEA where mine or anyone else's limitations dwell...........but on a "personal" level....real close.

be-careful what you post, and to "whom" you direct them......

OMG, I was confused.........for just a bit........so I am woman enough to say it. 

I even admitted it - the chart is confusing.......
the chart make is seem that a1, a2 and a3 are OK because it shows 3 "normal"'s but that isn't the case..........

This whole time, I meant to say, "I only dogs that are a1"........a2 and a3 - no way.   a6 maybe, depending on the score from the other country...... for OFA I would limit to E, G, and possible F........

I have a possibly "borderline" female, her prelims didn't come out as good as we had hoped for, if the next set of x-rays isn't graded better, we will not breed her.....very disappointing.


why are you so agitated?

what is the deal???

why are you making threats?

i don't understand

Unless you can "chill" I will no longer reply to you.......