Serious hard GSD - Page 19

This dog is way too strong to title in IPO is, in reality, this dog can't handle the training for IPO...like retrieving, calling out of the blind without dirty bites, unable to run blind pattern, unable to do send out...tons of things I've seen people have problems with when i was involved in sch, and then say the dog is 'too strong' for sch training so is only good for psd., or pp.

Read my post on the other thread I just wrote - guess we really have someting in common...

 

 

Serious hard dogs , Gangasah dogs they only need smart handlers so simple
is that, what do we see mostly in training hard dogs get hard corrrections than
that hard dog is on the limit and feels the much heavier correction no more
this is what happening many times.Training dogs is thinking not always punishing.
The best trainers are thinkers with patient  all the respect to them.

Macho handlers X hard serious dogs is mostly a bad  match.

 

 

Real dog people observe and 'see', instead of; nothing matters as long as a title is acquired.

What a load of idiocy. Take most half decent dogs backtie them and agitate vs sending the dog into the blind for a controlled guard on a neutral helper. Ofcourse you will see a different picture with the dog. Only people that do not work dogs will be impressed with one over the other.
You people that trash IPO dogs are also amusing. The training many top tier teams do with the dogs in tracking much less Protection to make full points would leave you thinking twice about most of the ASSumptions. The fact that the dogs come through that and still preform at that level is no small thing.

Another stupid thing is this strange concept that defensive GSD are somewhat rare. There are many of these dogs both in WLs and even SLs. They are reactive to threat in nature and definitely have a utility but are in no way rare. Anyone who runs a training business can attest to that.
I get it though you backtie this type of dog and threaten him and it all looks very impressive.

I happen to have a dog that will definitely go civil, can handle tons of pressure in protection and constantly get compliments on his work. He also happens to be handler sensitive. Not so much to pain but the concept that I am displeased with him. So if I hammer on him in a stupid way he will either bite me or will have poor expression in the obedience.
This doesnt bother me because I have no need to beat on my dog to prove his strength. Infact its quite nice to have a dog that mostly works for you because he wants to as opposed to one that needs the stick every other day.

 

Conversly I recently had the opportunity to work a very strong GSD that is definitely a breed quality dog.  He happens to be hard, civil and all that other stuff.  Monster grips, hits like a train, big and IPO3 KKL1, V in protection.  He also looks kind of boring in his guarding.  Why?  Because he has no fear or concern about the helper.  Someone who did not know what to look for watching this dog would probably overlook him for the dogs being crazy in the blind.

Dont be impressed by window dressing or all internet video and hype about IPO vs Real, see dogs, work dogs, train dogs then it starts to become clear.


 

Defensive GSD is very rare , almost all top trainers will tell you it's not everyday you see a dog with well developed natural defense , I've been to many ipo events where the dogs are studs on the field but once they're put back in the truck it's like games over , I can't even tell you how many times I've reached inside people's trucks with their ipo3 dog in it just to prove a point( where i could've stolen the truck and the dog in it )  .. People get pissed off when u critisize sch for being a game to the dog and some dogs are genetically bred to be good at it , dog people usually invest alot of emotion into their dogs and it can be a very touché subject for many as people get worked up .. The truth is too many pussies are breeding GSDs to sniff for hot dogs and chase tennis balls and not breeding for what a real GSD was suppose to be . And I mostly blame (EDITED WESTERN RIDER)who join or run these clubs and have a serious issue with masculinity or any males over 70 pounds. Ridiculous.

Do not post comment like that here. Western Rider

 

I think many people write for fact what they only see in person, some here havent seen much, some have, I think Haz is right, enough strong GSD to be found, but maybe not so much in the (top) of IPO sport so much in general

some people today would get rid of tough dog in IPO because the want points, not fight their dog


Ronny van den berg told in some interview he was ready to give up on Tom leefdaalhof several times, but finally didnot
he was happy champion with Eros mohnwiese and Como

the difference is obvious in the offspring of them

todays trainers love dogs like Eros and Como, and so do many breeders,

so this determens for a great deal what typeof dogs you find in ( top of ) IPO

not to say there are no exeptions

I can find defensive GSD in just about every club you go to. They dont tend to make good sport dogs because they are reactive vs active.

They arent rare...get over it.

I would not want a dog from Como or with Como in his pedigree. Please dont send me one, haha.
I agree Duke, there are some exceptions but I think you really must work the dog or know someone who has before you can be sure.
Its not always the fastest dog or the one with the craziest looking guard that is the strongest.

If you'd put your hand inside my car with the gal in my sig, she would have nailed you, for sure!

The wife of one of my patients wanted to say 'hi' to here - I let her out of the car, and the woman gave her some treats, and petted her.

Put her back in the vehicle, and the woman stuck her head inside to say 'goodbye' to her, and Tasha showed her teeth and gave a warning growl. 

Wish I'd been able to do more with her. She was one of the best damn dogs I've ever had, but schutzhund wasn't on my radar at the time, and anything to do with CKC required the dog have a pedigree, so I couldn't even put a tracking title on her, though she aced the tracking test in the course I did with Ginny Neher. The States had the ILP at the time, but Canada didn't get the PEN number until later.