Workinglines vs Showlines - Page 17

jenn78, Agreed on limitations of trials. But a person who trains in a local group, will meet others from outside the group and see more and more dogs. when you see a dog you like, find out how it was raised and trained, you will be a better owner. When you meet that other dog, find out how it was bred. It might or might not make sence for the program you own. The accomplished people we admire are not just making the ''right mistakes'' with their dogs breeding and training. A thread of 100 pages in early Jan 2015 was sumised great by a poster who said not to judge the dog the day of the trial, but to witness all of the work, from training to trialing.  Difficult to do from one's own back yard. 

Much has been said about the difference in the bite work between the show dogs and the working dogs but there are some things that we should be aware of.

The dogs that obtain Sch H to satisfy the rules for the show side have to pass the courage test. For these dogs they only have to show in the bite work that they are willing to attack, take a full bite and stay in while taking moderate punishment and come out on command. That will be enough to pass.

For the working dogs they must pass the same test but show the sort of aggression that will be needed in a real live situation. Big difference.

This difference does not mean that the SL dogs cannot be as aggressive as working dogs it is just they are not required to train and perform the bite work as often as the other dogs. I would like to see the SL dogs have to match the working dogs in this discipline with the apropriate control. This, I think, would bring the two sides more together as a beginning.

Mackenzie

Mac, since the IPO trial is the same for all dogs, why do "show" dogs do not have to train like the "sport" dogs? There is a huge difference between instinct and actually job performance. Why do the sport dogs have this so called "aggression" you spoke of and the show dogs do not? 

Aggression is part of genetic temperament and that is created when sperm meets egg...you do not train a dog's "aggression", whatever you meant by that, you channel it, you give it direction, end of. If a dog has that aggression in it, be it show or sport, it will show itself during training and in other areas, like every day life. 

Show dogs are bred for looks, distorted as they may be, but, thats it. Show people do not have any interest in the actual temperament of the dog as far as work, they want the look that gets rewarded in the show ring. Sport people are breeding crap with over the top prey drives, no suspicion and no civil abilities because thats what gets one to the podium. You cant mix the two because a show person will always be more interested in show and a sport person will be more interested in sport. 

A wise man once said, "You cant serve two masters at once, one will suffer at the other's expense"!

What about dogs like the HGH dogs I posted here? Dogs that are breed surveyed, V rated,  and titled in multiple venues? 

What about them?

Their value to the breed? 

Blitzen, look at some of the comments made in this and similar other threads..."Oh, I dont breed to SV standards", "oh, if everyone bred the same type of dogs, life would be boring", than tell me what breed you are talking about.  

When people breed to their standards, based on what they like and suits their own needs/market, the fundamental, basic standard is gone, so, what breed are you talking about dear?

I don't understand the question, sweetie.

Its very simple and basic, what breed are you talking about, based on what I said in my previous post because I know you did not mean the GSD!

Hired dog - First the show dog does not carry out the same tasks as a working dog, also, the way that the character is developed by the working side leads to more aggresion in order to fulfil a job.   You say that "you do not train aggression you channel it and give it direction" surely what you are saying in the same sentence is whilst denying it that you DO train the dog.

Whether you like it or not you can mix the two.  The easy example that comes to mind the the VA female Xitta v Kirschental who, on the mother side had several HGH dogs.  The Sieger Marko v Cellerland is another example.

Mackenzie