Discernment - Page 17

GSD Student, bad student!! Summer school for you!!! :)

within the SV "system" one can find a GSD for any purpose that a GSD can be put to. working, sport, show, LE/military, SAR, companion, there are even dogs capable of doing well in Am. show. besides that one can know the h/e status for several generations, if the dog had a full mouth, size of dog, size of litters and much more. despite the faults of the SV (real and perceived) that's some useful information.

I thought Gustav meant that the only one's who can discern a discerning dog breeder, will be validated by the fact that the discerning dogs come from the breeder that doesn't show or compete.

Only, I wonder, is it a special human with the genetic trait to be able to discern a discerning dog that is as much a concern, as they just don't make (breed) them like that any more. Maybe those that are born today have had this bred out of them since the idea of what is considered by humans as "work" for man and GSD has changed since the days of yore. 

That would mean the best dogs and the best dog people are being bred out of existence because their skills are no longer needed, or heeded. The only path forward is to be carved by the new dogs and people alive and striving to do the work of today. Oh well. Must have been nice while it lasted.

GSDstudent, no harm, no foul. I am quite capable of disagreeing with someone in a civil manner. 

I was just surprised by what you said, as SO many examples of discernment have been provided where the dog had definitely NOT been taught to do what it did. The one that sticks in my mind the most is the war dog in Vietnam that picked up on the grenade tripwire without ever having any training for it.

Gsdstudent....I was going to address your comments on discernment, but I think it's better if we leave things alone. I know far more about this breed than police and military, but sometimes I am not smart enough to know when to quit.....you are certainly entitled to believe and understand whatever you like. The two of us debating this serves no useful purpose at this point.....lotta people have sent me emails Thanking me for insights on this....that is my reward. I never said discernment comes from one source only, but it doesn't make a difference it's not worth my while to continue this topic. 
Beetree....we see and understand this breed differently, and we can leave it like that....cool?
Others.....if you feel comfortable that this behavior I feel is discernment has been created in my head....then it just goes to show I don't know as much about this breed as I should....so lets continue with drives, angulation, and colors as main breeding forces.

There are still some of us who take a dog's character into consideration, Gustav, so again, thank you for the thought provoking topic. I'll always take the time to reflect on this discussion, by everyone. You brought up a trait that I have always attributed to a dog being able to think and have brains... Now it has a label. :-)

I promised myself not to come back and post on this thread but I feel I have to.

Please be patient and read me through. This is all based on observation but I could be way off target.
We all know that if something is repeated often enough from one generation to the next it eventually shows in the genes. That's how evolution works. 

Again let me take you back in time to when puppies were raised "free ranging" and compare this with todays average pup. Over time I had noticed that In general there was quite a difference in dogs (GSD and Bouviers) according to how they were kenneled in the first 7-8 weeks of life. Most of the very old farm born GSD/BDF were raised on the straw somewhere in the corner of a barn or other farm building. The mother was free to roam around the building and the grounds as she wished. The pups would follow her everywhere as soon as they were able to do so. Mama would chase mice, rats, coons and fox but left the goats, rabbits, chickens and other farm animals alone. She was alarmed by strangers but quiet to those who belonged. The mothers were strict with their young and this roaming around the grounds in the later weeks of puppy hood gave her the chance to show the pups no fear of noises, surfaces, large animals, etc and she could apply discipline when needed so that they would stay “inline” and avoid getting hurt. She, the mother, was probably born into the same scenario. So not only was there after many generation an innate discretionary capability but there was at each following generation an added learnt element in very early puppy hood.

Then came the day of the organized breeder with his/hers brood pens and fenced runs. The pups got out maybe once in a while for socialization nothing more. They are in touch with few humans and all other elements that could help their very early development. Finally at 7 – 8 weeks they go to a new home. The old farm raised dogs had quite an education by the time they were ready to leave for their new homes as compared to today’s dogs.