Hock walker? - Page 16

    Might I remind that

   AS we can go back to those years, in any  SCHUTZHUND MAGAZINE,  STEFFENHAUS Kennel    WON top kennel for her dogs in Seiger shows for many years..she placed from first to 6th most of the time.

  Also her dogs didn't walk on hocks, and during  those years , most of them   worked and won the tops titles to prove it, here and in Germany

Yr

 

Having a good eye for conformation is something that, like courage in dog, cannot be taught. Either you have it or you don't.

 May I direct us to a thread put up by Mel  on here


Look at those dogs in her pedigree.  NO HOCK WALKERS    V rated Sire and SG Dam

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=629846

Ibrahim, ....lol.....you keep referencing the vision and the improvement as years went on by the Capt.; how he kept infusing certain dogs and blood to bring things back to center whether it was temperament, working or size. Now think about what you said......The SL have NOT done this like the Capt. did. They have not infused new blood into these show lines for over thirty years. They have not inserted blood from lines known to improve temperament, working, or size. So you tell me about this vision and how the Capt. maintained it by staying centered as he progressed.....then you try to sell me on an extension of the vision(today's VA dogs), that has NOT had any infusions to improve these particular deficencies in over thirty years. Doesn't sound like the way the Capn advanced or maintained the vision with his VA placements. He could have let the breed go in one direction for thirty plus years without bringing in the blood to bring it back to principle....but he didn't. He chose to insert what was needed when needed to correct things. You got me confused again....smiling.....because anyway you cut it, this is not the way or result the Capt. talked about.

Gustav,

It is always a pleasure and self-educating reading your posts, I benefited from this discussion, thanks to each and all participants who enriched the discussion and shared with us their knowledge and views.

Ibrahim

I appreciate your quest for knowledge Ibrahim, and your progress in the breed. My last personal thoughts on this subject is, contrary to what many think about me, I love nice structure in the breed. That's why I always reference dogs like Marko vom Cellerland, Mutz vd Peltzerferm, Bernd v Lierberg, Held v Ritterberg, all of these dogs were select in conformation and produced select in conformation dogs at national conformation shows in addition to their working ability. I am not blind to a nice structured dog whatsoever, I am blind to color types(though I am fond of bi-color....lol), but I support the need for excellent structure, health and temperament as being the essence of this breed....in terms of breeding.
Take care, my friend!

Ibrahim
I think I see what you were saying.

Working ability is not only a matter of temperament it is also a matter of optimum body structure for work and endurance. You mention perfect proportions, better shoulders and better reach in today's SL dogs. Why then do we not see corresponding enhanced (physical) performance from a good proportion of these dogs who have the will to work?

Do you think the the structure of the modern SL impacts physically on how well a dog is able to work compared to the more moderate structure of 30 yrs ago?

These are genuine questions, I am not saying there is an answer!

I love the threads like this one. I find them very informative. I guess I have to say I am just a fan of the German Shepherd as a whole. I myself have been breeding Showline/ working line for years. I usee DDR as my working line . Much more diversity in the lines. I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE COMPLAINT ON WHAT I produce. No hock walkers and certainly no roach back. I refuse to take part in that deformity. Even though there appears to be more money breeding that way.

Not all showline dogs, ASL or GSL have bad form. Form follows function and there ARE slb who believe in that! I dont think it is fair to tar all showline dogs with the same brush. A correctly structured dog would be a better working dog, as it could cover more ground in fewer steps. IMHO, politics has a lot of influence over which dogs go the furthest, however, in ASL dogs. Cant speak for GSL dogs as I have never been to an SV show. One also cannot deny that what one feels is the perfect GSD is subjective. However, human nature being what it is will always lead to people breeding to extremes. JMO.. Its the *more is better* attiitude that has gotten the breed to this point. If *a little* is good- wont *MORE* be better? LOL! The end result is foot/a** dragging ASL and roach back German lines. 

IMHO, the only people who can set this breed back on track, as far as showlines, eliminating the hock walkers and the roach backs, is the judges. If they wont put up an extreme dog only then will breeders stop breeding *more is better* because they wont be able to win in the ring. Sadly, the judges are often the breeders, so what is the answer? Judges who dont breed GSDS but have to know the standard, inside and out? Thats a sticky wicket...
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate TThe happy medium must be very elusive. The only people who can stop these extremes are the judges. 

Aby these are big questions indeed, in principle good conformation should be a plus and ads to the work ability. Correct structure + correct temperament should lead to a good working dog, correct structure wouldn't hinder a dog's ability to do work efficiently. Enjoy this video



Here's an older one of same dog