Origin of Arched Back - Page 16

Pod once again you are staing something I did not state, the o/article you referred to as not been published that I am ware of unless you know otherwise, but like I have said regardless it is not evidence based research untill such why should I take your word or someone elses

You say I take too much notice of individual cases well show me the evidence to prove your case

AbbyN no one still knows who you are but in this thread it relates to the WG S/L so those mixed up lines that go unregistered are not actualy relevant to this topic - the gp are becoming more knowledgeable on conditions and what to ask for when viewing a litter, most ask before and disregard many litters before even viewing, and yes there is an increase in unregistered dogs but whether that is due to your friend JH or people trying to make money due to the rescession is anyones guess!

again show me evidence relevent to the original topic, then i will listen your views - you said you had a dog with spinal problems who was the sire/dam?

Wildmoor, we do seem to be going round in circles now.  Points you raise have already been addressed in previous posts.  I'm with Abby. Unless something new comes up, I think I've made my contribution to this thread.

Thank you, everyone, for the fantastic discussion!!!  It has been very educational and informative and I appreciate people taking the time to share their thoughts!

It is ok if we all agree to disagree! The important thing is we all respect each others opinions...even if they differ from our own. 

On a side note, Donnerstorm..my book came in and it's fantastic!  Thanks again for the recommendation!!

Smiley glad you got your book, hope it makes interesting reading for you


Pod the questions in my last post have not been addressed - show me evidence

If Abby is who i believe her to be then she has had 2 dogs with severe HD none were WG S/L

 Wildmoor, you have provided your own evidence with your continued use of anecdotes.  If your infomation on Abby's dogs is correct, what possible relevance has that to this thread?  Please don't answer, it's a rhetorical question.

Thank you sonora, and John for the link to a superb paper on GSD construction.  I hadn't seen that one... I'm halfway through reading.  I saw Louis Donald judge at the National back in the 80s when he gave the bitch CC to the beautifully constructed and unexaggerated Ch Wham Fantastic of Copybush.

Wildmoor
You are getting confused. I was not the poster whose dog had spinal problems, so I can't answer that question!

You seem to keep raising anecdotal incidences based on individual dogs rather than the breed as a whole. For example, I know someone at our club who has an aged non WGSL with a 0:0 score. That doesn't indicate that all non WGSL have perfect hips, it's anecdotal and individual. 

I agree with pod. This is going round in circles, maybe you should start a new thread about HD specifically Wildmoor, since the article by Mike Guillard is merely one aspect of this thread.

 Thank you John,For helping out .
 I'm really no good with computers.

Ibrahim , Glad to know you are keeping up to date with the breed.
keep well.

Fred , glad to see your contribution,

How did your Tour of this year's sieger show go.?
Any idea when we will get to read your article on your visits
to the various kennels and the sieger show.
Especially your comments on the ,"V A's" and their contribution to the breed.

thank you

Abby/Pod the submission form should be signed prior to xray therefore you are actualy signing an agreement that the plates are submitted regardless of potential problems with the hips or elbows - and the descision to submit is taken out of your hands, vets can be fined for not submitting. The vet I use is not the only vet in the UK that follows procedures there are also others. So if I was you both next time you have a dog requiring xrays for submission I would change vets.

I just had to know, and so spoke to the BVA today. They confirmed that there is no policy for mandatory submission of plates. They even double checked it with the manager of the canine health section to be absolutely sure. They encourage submission of all plates, obviously, but the decision is never 'taken out of your hands' you can and always have been able to choose not to submit plates.  It seems that some vets do tell their clients this, but it is not accurate. Neither can a vet be fined, so I don't know where you got that from.  Just to be clear, I think ALL plates should be submitted, for only then can the data have any value.  

Pam, (Wildmoor) if you’re referring to my post re dog with spinal problems, you already know the bloodlines. But he is not alone with spinal problems and I’m very surprised you don’t know that, given the research that you do. Isn’t some folk in Europe now x-raying their dogs‘ spine?

You mentioned Zandi with a hip score of 0:0 as an anecdotal example of no evidence of degeneration; doesn’t Zandi have an elbow score of 3?

There is one thing for sure; there is no evidence to suggest that the modern day structure has made the population healthier.

Thank you Sonora and John for posting a link to that article - super article.