Panda Shepherd(what do you think?) - Page 16

Well, first off, Frankie was not produced out of 2 blk/tan parents as mentioned in the beginning of this topic. Her sire was a SchH3 titled import working line dog who was blk/tan with darker marked face (Brain von der Wolper Lowen to be precise-he's here on the database). Her mother Madchen was solid black. Madchen was never titled but was OFA hip certified Good-I met her in person years ago.

The breeding between these two are essentially mostly working lines with some American show lines coming through from the mother Madchen's paternal side. Hence the conformation shouldn't be expected to be extreme, since it didn't originate from a majority American show line breeding.

The DNA testing has been done; this is not a jumped fence thing, but rather, an initial fluke that can apparently happen within the GSD breed. The markings appear similar to that of a typical Border Collie (white on the tail tip, white around the nose, white up the center of the head, white around the neck and into the chests, white up front feet but usually only on the feet/toes of the back, and so forth). That is not saying its actually FROM a Border Collie as to be accusing panda shepherds of being mixed breeds. I don't think they are mixed breeds at all. The Canaan dog pictured seems to have a bit too much white for me personally. I think it all stems from the original herding dogs like the Collie, BC, and the GSD.

There have been litters produced long before "Frankie" who had these same similar markings, so it has surfaced before. Just the blue eyes has never been seen/documented prior to her. Nor was such things typically publicized like today, nor did we have genetic testing back then like we have today.

As far as personal opinions, I don't think it really matters-people are gonna do what they're gonna do. If you don't like it, then don't like it. If you do like it, then like it.

The panda shepherd was a spontaneous mutation, confirmed by geneticists out of quality GSD bloodlines.
There is no difference between the Panda dogs and the "regular" German Shepherds except for the affect of the Panda gene on color and markings.  There are no health or temperament issues at all linked to the Panda gene.

If everyone liked the same kind of dog, there wouldn't be well over 400 breeds worldwide!

Frankly, its better for people to breed variant color and marking styles of GSDs with the trainability and intelligence and stable temperament of the GSD, than the problems with temperament common to some of the other popular breeds out there.  (Nationwide, you will find shelters are FILLED with adolescent  pitbulls, you sure don't see shelters overflowing with German shepherds of any color! Although you see many dogs in shelters who get labeled as German Shepherds or GSD mixes simply because they are black and tan!)

I'm recently arrived to this board and I'm not a breeder. It seems that "panda" shepherds are a spontaneous genetic anomaly affecting coloring only.  Those who say that the "panda" is a different breed or a mix are just showing their own colors.  If you have an otherwise fine GSD dog, it would be a waste to euthanize a fine animal that could be used for other tasks just because the markings are not suitable.  In my opinion, if its breeding implies its suitability for work, spay/neutering and donating it for police, guide or military duty might be a useful culling of such an animal from the breeding pool.

There are GSD's in shelters because a lot of people don't think things through when they buy a dog and a lot of breeders are not invested enough in their own litters to care much who they sell them to as long as the money is good.  Owning a dog, regardless of breed, is a commitment which many buyers do not realize when they buy their dog.  Like any other thing in life, you must invest yourself into it in order to reap the rewards of having a great companion.

I am reviving this post nearly one year later.
I was blown away by the comments at the beginning of the thread - how ignorant people were being and how close minded - but was happy to see that when Pandamom voiced her ownership of a Panda the post shifted from pure hatred to proper interest in the breed.
I am also an owner of a beautiful Panda male and have been nothing but satisfied.  He is 100% pure shepherd and has the genetics and AKC registration to prove it.  He also has the temperment and qualities a GSD should have and is in great shape.  He is a great tracker and an all around sweetheart - there is not one ounce of Border Collie or Caanan dog in him - he is confident, strides like a shepherd and has all the protective qualities.  I also have a white shepherd and think all these elitist color jerks out there need to open their minds.  Color does not make a shepherd - it is the temperment, genetics and body standards that do.  White shepherds were actually very common and date back to the early 1800's - but the Nazi regime and Hitler deemed this color unacceptable and decided to cull the color trait.  
Samson and Maya (my two dogs) are some of the best shepherds I have seen - and whats even better is they have NO health issues -
I really hope people open their minds to this beautiful color trait - and before you actually meet a panda in person don't judge.

BIT OF AN OLD THREAD.

It is not that i have some kind of hate for this colour, it is jsut that i wish to abide by the true WUSV standard for the GSD & this colour is not allowed

As I've said on other panda posts:

A lot of info about hypothesized genetics on the panda can be found here on a 2008 Panda thread:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/162528.html

Spontaneous color "morphs" pop up all the time. It can occur in wild animals (very rarely) but more often the mutation for patched coats seems to be a correlation with the domestication process. The well known russian fox farm experiment showed that the piebald trait spontaneously occured in the selectively bred farmed foxes -- thus ruining the coats for fur, but opening up a whole new avenue of discovery.

http://www.hum.utah.edu/~bbenham/2510%20Spring%2009/Behavior%20Genetics/Farm-Fox%20Experiment.pdf




One of my other great passions is herptology, and that's a field where freaky colors and patterns are celebrated. This is a ball python, a well known and popular pet species...




This is a piebald ball python:




And these are just a few of the varieties that have come about from spontaneous mutations and selective breeding of these freak individuals. All the same species, no outcrossing, just genetics in action:






Where I'm going with the snake thing, and the fox thing, is that there is no reason to assume pandas are mixes; quite frankly I love the look, regardless of whether it's to standard or not. I'm of the view that if an animal is structurally correct, and capable of doing the work the breed was designed for, then color is of secondary importance as long as it is not linked to any known genetic deficiences like the white in the albino dobermans. (White dobes are albinos, simply the tyrosinase positive form thereof.)

Wow, JC, what fascinating colour variations! I'd swear someone had used some photoshopping or some paint on that piebald python!    Very interesting!

I personally think that these dogs of course have origin of shepherd in them, but I definitely don't think that they are to be considered a Panda Shepherd, which means that they are just a rare color.

They look more like Border collies with short hair, and more upright ears.

They are beautiful, but I don't think they have anything to do with Shepherd nowadays..

And you drew this conclusion...how??  After reading the genetic report on Frankie from one of the country's best know universities, which states he IS a purebred GSD, and pinpointing just where on the chromosomes the mutation occured?

Sorry, biting my tongue here to keep from saying something even more sarcastic...

There is another poster on the database who also had a Panda appear spontaneously in one of her litters. The dogs were not related to Frankie at all, and all the other pups in the litter were normally coloured. There was also no chance of another male having gotten to the bitch.

Mutations happen. It's a fact of life, and a fascinating one. However, it should NOT be the jumping off point for a new breed!

Are these dogs purebred German Shepherds as well or are they another mixed type breed that is not registered with AKC?