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by duke1965 on 30 December 2011 - 12:12
danny , I think the breeder/broker WILL respond as soon as the name comes out , and WILL NOT respond before to avoid the name to come out
im breeding dogs for 25 + years , but sending a dog with severe overbite to unknowing customer is impossible in my book
A breeder must accept and do right by all he is producing , the good the bad and the ugly , but not take money for it and make it somebody elses problem
they did it once , they will do it again , matter of company ethics so to speak
im breeding dogs for 25 + years , but sending a dog with severe overbite to unknowing customer is impossible in my book
A breeder must accept and do right by all he is producing , the good the bad and the ugly , but not take money for it and make it somebody elses problem
they did it once , they will do it again , matter of company ethics so to speak
by Rik on 30 December 2011 - 13:12
danny, you pretty much covered what I was thinking. and no it won't be popular. If I read correctly, the breeder offered a replacement pup with shipping and no return on the original pup. Regardless of how sad the situation may be, from this point on the decision was up to Chrissy.
The part that bothers me most is no way does an experienced person miss the mouth issues, especially when deciding on one pup to keep. The whole thing could have been avoided and should have been.
I would hope the people responsible will step up and do the right thing in this case and in my mind, a refund is the right thing. Guess time will tell.
Rik
The part that bothers me most is no way does an experienced person miss the mouth issues, especially when deciding on one pup to keep. The whole thing could have been avoided and should have been.
I would hope the people responsible will step up and do the right thing in this case and in my mind, a refund is the right thing. Guess time will tell.
Rik
by JakodaCD OA on 30 December 2011 - 13:12
I have to say , you all have renewed my faith in human compassion:)
It's rather sad that a bunch of veritable strangers are willing to help someone more than the breeder.
Kudos to you all, I'm sure you'll all be rewarded in some way for your generosity:)
It's rather sad that a bunch of veritable strangers are willing to help someone more than the breeder.
Kudos to you all, I'm sure you'll all be rewarded in some way for your generosity:)
by Blitzen on 30 December 2011 - 13:12
Exactly, Rik. How could that severe of an overbite have been missed first by the breeder/shipper/vet signing the health cert and then by the broker? Naw, I don't buy into that scenario at all. It's safe to offer another dog when one knows the buyer can't have another dog. I have to question if the broker would have taken his/her pup it had such a bite.
I don't know the breeder or the broker, so this is nothing personal.....Sell the puppy you would give her as a replacement and use that money to refund her purchase price including the shipping.
Make it right...give her her money back.
I don't know the breeder or the broker, so this is nothing personal.....Sell the puppy you would give her as a replacement and use that money to refund her purchase price including the shipping.
Make it right...give her her money back.
by Abby Normal on 30 December 2011 - 17:12
It's a really, really simple step for the breeder to make this right in so far as it can be made right for this girl and her dream pup. Breeder ? You lose nothing financially, but will gain everything in terms of respect from the GSD community if you do the right thing for Chrissy and Kaiser now.
BTW just checked out Just Giving and you have to be a registered charity to set up a page, so that idea is out. So I guess maybe a dedicated bank account could be set up by Chrissy just for Kaiser so as to keep track of the situation, and anyone that wants to can pay a donation into it directly.
BTW just checked out Just Giving and you have to be a registered charity to set up a page, so that idea is out. So I guess maybe a dedicated bank account could be set up by Chrissy just for Kaiser so as to keep track of the situation, and anyone that wants to can pay a donation into it directly.
by workingdogz on 30 December 2011 - 17:12
Rik & Danny,
I can say I understand your train of thought, and you guys are 100% right, this girl deserves a problematic free puppy that she can do the sport with that she wanted.
Life sucks and she and the pup got screwed badly. She did TRY to get ahold of the breeder/broker, but was blown off.
A phone call was made 2 days after the pups arrival, emails with pics were sent etc, and when she did contact the broker here in the states, she was told he would call her back--and didn't. After about 10-14 days (sorry, don't remember the exact time frame) she decided to keep the pup as she had bonded with him. Chrissy clearly stated in a public post on another board that she wanted to return the puppy to the broker that weekend, but could not contact the broker on the phone to make arrangements to do so. Another week passed and OH SHIT, she is a human with a heart, she BONDED with the pup and decided to keep him. Sure yes, the broker/breeder offered her another puppy, but they didn't have any other litters SHE had interest in, and since she can only handle one dog, a "replacement" would do no good. She also at that time would have had to pay shipping on the other puppy.
This is not some multi titled numerous dog owning serious competitor we are talking about, this is a girl, a girl who worked hard and saved her money and tried to do EVERYTHING right, she didn't want much. Just a pup from a certain breeding, a pup she could do schutzhund and some personal protection with. Thats not much to ask for is it? Especially when one is paying $1600+USD plus shipping for a pup. (Not sure what was paid, but generally thats what this breeder/broker duo sells pups for)
Since the breeder/broker have so 'generously' offered up a pup & shipping as replacement, they should simply sell said puppy and refund this girls purchase price AND shipping fees.
If you want a link to a thread with pics of the bite, PM me, I will be happy to give it to you.
I agree with duke, the breeder/broker will lay low on this, in their eyes they "tried".
The whole thing is, I would put good money on the fact that if they had told her before the pup was shipped about the bite?
she would not be dealing with this at all. She has stated as much.
Eventually someone will "out" them. And yes, I feel strongly that Chrissy should post the entire saga here so people know all the details. She should also post the dogs pedigree here too. It's too late for her, but perhaps she can save someone else the heartache and financial loss she has suffered. Bad hips/elbows are always going to pop up somewhere, no matter how hard a breeder tries. And there are some awesome breeders out there, ones that will stand by their dogs even if the "contract" says otherwise etc. But this is not just about bad hips, this is about a deception right from the start.
I have mentioned it before, and maybe it's been missed, and yes, someone else mentioned it. If you have not already xrayed his elbows, please do so.
Also, if you have more xrays done, please put all his information on the xrays before any surgery. I will pay for you to send them to OFA as well, just be sure you publish the results.
Whatever happens in the end, Chrissy will know there are at least some good hearted GSD people out there that have came together to help her and her pup out.
Edited to add: It's easy for others (myself included) to sit back and say we'd never ______ or _______, we'd euthanize etc. but when it comes down to it, this is a living breathing creature that depends on a human to care for it, so while it's easy to _say_ one of us would 'never' do this or that, just hope you are never in that place. And try to remember, we all started in dogs the same way essentially- eager and enthusiastic etc to conquer the world with our dog. It would be nice to go back to that place in time, but sadly having seen so much of this kind of stuff in the dog world, I can't. Doesn't mean I can't help a fellow dog lover out a little.
I can say I understand your train of thought, and you guys are 100% right, this girl deserves a problematic free puppy that she can do the sport with that she wanted.
Life sucks and she and the pup got screwed badly. She did TRY to get ahold of the breeder/broker, but was blown off.
A phone call was made 2 days after the pups arrival, emails with pics were sent etc, and when she did contact the broker here in the states, she was told he would call her back--and didn't. After about 10-14 days (sorry, don't remember the exact time frame) she decided to keep the pup as she had bonded with him. Chrissy clearly stated in a public post on another board that she wanted to return the puppy to the broker that weekend, but could not contact the broker on the phone to make arrangements to do so. Another week passed and OH SHIT, she is a human with a heart, she BONDED with the pup and decided to keep him. Sure yes, the broker/breeder offered her another puppy, but they didn't have any other litters SHE had interest in, and since she can only handle one dog, a "replacement" would do no good. She also at that time would have had to pay shipping on the other puppy.
This is not some multi titled numerous dog owning serious competitor we are talking about, this is a girl, a girl who worked hard and saved her money and tried to do EVERYTHING right, she didn't want much. Just a pup from a certain breeding, a pup she could do schutzhund and some personal protection with. Thats not much to ask for is it? Especially when one is paying $1600+USD plus shipping for a pup. (Not sure what was paid, but generally thats what this breeder/broker duo sells pups for)
Since the breeder/broker have so 'generously' offered up a pup & shipping as replacement, they should simply sell said puppy and refund this girls purchase price AND shipping fees.
If you want a link to a thread with pics of the bite, PM me, I will be happy to give it to you.
I agree with duke, the breeder/broker will lay low on this, in their eyes they "tried".
The whole thing is, I would put good money on the fact that if they had told her before the pup was shipped about the bite?
she would not be dealing with this at all. She has stated as much.
Eventually someone will "out" them. And yes, I feel strongly that Chrissy should post the entire saga here so people know all the details. She should also post the dogs pedigree here too. It's too late for her, but perhaps she can save someone else the heartache and financial loss she has suffered. Bad hips/elbows are always going to pop up somewhere, no matter how hard a breeder tries. And there are some awesome breeders out there, ones that will stand by their dogs even if the "contract" says otherwise etc. But this is not just about bad hips, this is about a deception right from the start.
I have mentioned it before, and maybe it's been missed, and yes, someone else mentioned it. If you have not already xrayed his elbows, please do so.
Also, if you have more xrays done, please put all his information on the xrays before any surgery. I will pay for you to send them to OFA as well, just be sure you publish the results.
Whatever happens in the end, Chrissy will know there are at least some good hearted GSD people out there that have came together to help her and her pup out.
Edited to add: It's easy for others (myself included) to sit back and say we'd never ______ or _______, we'd euthanize etc. but when it comes down to it, this is a living breathing creature that depends on a human to care for it, so while it's easy to _say_ one of us would 'never' do this or that, just hope you are never in that place. And try to remember, we all started in dogs the same way essentially- eager and enthusiastic etc to conquer the world with our dog. It would be nice to go back to that place in time, but sadly having seen so much of this kind of stuff in the dog world, I can't. Doesn't mean I can't help a fellow dog lover out a little.
by Two Moons on 30 December 2011 - 18:12
Poor dog.
Moons.
What happened to my post?
Please explain.
We'll try again.
Your unnecessary comment was removed twice, please do not post it again, thank you. mrdarcy (admin)
by Slamdunc on 30 December 2011 - 18:12
Circus?????? WTF
by Two Moons on 30 December 2011 - 18:12
What WTF?
Hi Jim,
how's it hangin?
Moons.
Hi Jim,
how's it hangin?
Moons.
by Slamdunc on 30 December 2011 - 19:12
Why is this thread a circus? That was my question.
Actually, this thread is far from a circus and probably one of the most beneficial threads in a while. A GSD owner came here seeking support and advice. Members contacted vets and found an affordable option to help ease the suffering of both the dog and owner. Other members offered to contribute to the surgery. I will contribute as I am genuinely impressed with the OP and want the dog to have a comfortable life.
The only thing that hasn't happened is for the breeder to come forward and offer some sort of explanation and/or financial assistance. I would like to know how a dog gets shipped with a severe overbite, when it comes from the "leading" experts in the GSD world.....at least according to them. We are only getting one side of the story since the breeder has not given his version. So, I am speculating here; but how does a breeder who evaluated the litter and selected 3 pups for him and his partner not see this pup? How does this breeder / vendor / importer not see this huge overbite and warn the buyer and still ship the pup? Will the breeder/ vendor / importer breed these three littermates knowing that this pus has all of these genetic defects? I am going to watch for that. I think workingdogz has spelled it out pretty well in his last post.
Jim
Actually, this thread is far from a circus and probably one of the most beneficial threads in a while. A GSD owner came here seeking support and advice. Members contacted vets and found an affordable option to help ease the suffering of both the dog and owner. Other members offered to contribute to the surgery. I will contribute as I am genuinely impressed with the OP and want the dog to have a comfortable life.
The only thing that hasn't happened is for the breeder to come forward and offer some sort of explanation and/or financial assistance. I would like to know how a dog gets shipped with a severe overbite, when it comes from the "leading" experts in the GSD world.....at least according to them. We are only getting one side of the story since the breeder has not given his version. So, I am speculating here; but how does a breeder who evaluated the litter and selected 3 pups for him and his partner not see this pup? How does this breeder / vendor / importer not see this huge overbite and warn the buyer and still ship the pup? Will the breeder/ vendor / importer breed these three littermates knowing that this pus has all of these genetic defects? I am going to watch for that. I think workingdogz has spelled it out pretty well in his last post.
Jim
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