If the Capt. was alive today - Page 13

I've said this here before, sorry. IMO GSD's are falling out of favor for police work not only because of their inability to  git 'er done. I was told by an NYC police officer that department was tired of getting ripped off buying "trained" dogs from the US that were not actually trained and they were considering going with mals. Her partner was a very nice Czech dog, a replacement for her Am bred GSD that died from leukemia after working at Ground Zero.

Aren't most of the GSD's trained in the US for PD'd WL's from Europe? Isn't it possibly the fault of trainers doing an inadequate job as much as the dogs themselves?

I know there are Leos here who know a lot more about this than I do, so I  hope they will contribute.

He would be scratching his head wondering what the hell happened!

I happen to train dogs with the police and raise them for the police and have been for many years. I don't know what is elitest about that...actually I am recognizing and providing dogs that do the work the Capn would approve of. But the real world  is not peaches and cream...there are many GS today that don't have it. And who is really elitest????I submit that dogs doing the police work are blue collar dogs that are in the mold of what the Capn wanted. You very very seldom see extremely angulated dogs, or black and red GS doing this blue collar work anymore....this is FACT. Not bashing, just the way it is....so we need to understand the word elitest, before we throw it around....the elitest people and dogs are the ones that the Capn wouldn't be happy with.

Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.^[1] 

I actually wasn't referring to you, Gustav. I was referring to the promoters of all the little subdivisions that subscribe to the my-dog-is-better-than-your-dog-because philosophy. Glad that you are a seasoned police dog trainer; I'm not. If I wanted to be, I'd be one or have at least tried to be one. I prefer other venues with my dog/s as do a number of other GSD owners.  Somehow many have come to think that specific venues are more valid ways to prove the worthiness of their dogs. The only people who have earned the right to say that are those like Kinzel. If we want to be purists about this breed and go back to the future, the only prototype dogs we should be looking at are those who excel at tending, not IPO, not  protection, not French ring, agility, rally, etc.  Form follows function.

You think that the Capt would approve of your training for police work .Are there any other venues you think he would approve of too?

 The topic is - if the Capt were alive today so I'm trying to stick to that. If he were alive IMO he would tell ALL of us that we screwed up badly by forgetting the original intent of the breed and by making the breed into what we THINK it should be not what he said it should be.

 

Blitzen, saying " he would tell ALL of us that we screwed up badly....." should be pointed at show line breeders and those who insist on those. People such as Gustav have a profound concept of the GSD as a breed in it's entirety. The future of the breed as it is supposed to be will survive through the knowledge and work of Gustov and others with the same insight and uncompromising dedication as him.

OK Joanro, you win. It's all the fault of the Showline breeders. Happy now? Do you even understand the meaning of the word elitism?

You posted the definition, but the word wealth can be dropped, as wealth isn't mandatory to have skills, wisdom, and influence on society.

Blitzen, We definitely agree on some points....but I am curious as to whether the Capt was instrumental in putting in place Sch, otherwise known as protection dog, as a means of deciding breed worthiness WITH herding....because if he helped put this in place then herding WOULDN'T be the only thing he felt was TRUE to what the dog should be. If he felt that testing a GS in ways that are a precursor to policework is what would preserve working qualities, then the facts speak for what he thinks.
Here is where you have me wrong....I don't dislike or hate any type or color of GS, EXCEPT the ones that don't behave like a GS should. I have no problem with a GS that is cut out for seeing-eye work. As a matter of fact we had a top trainer from the seeing-eye foundation in North Jersey who was invited as a guest at the Regional police trials last year. I asked her why they do not use GS more like it used to be....she made it clear that so few GS has the nerve these days to do the work that they don't pursue them actively. She also complained about GS with too much drive( I have also been critical of this)! So my point is there is no reason for people to justify breeding GS that can't do either protection work or service work, especially that doesn't even involve biting. When I see people that try to justify the breed slipping to these levels (regardless of WHAT type it is), I know it is not correct. I love all GS that exhibit the utility of the breed....the beauty of the breed is the utility!!!! But to ask people to overlook and not criticize dogs bred that do not have utility in them is wrong in so many ways and very selfish in terms of putting personal likes over breed welfare.

Joanro, do you know what "or" means. 

wasn't the Captain a part of expanding the horizons of the GSD, that he helped found. Pretty sure he was involved in developing the tests and proofing that should be adhered to in keeping the GSD true to the blue print that he laid out.