Panda Shepherd(what do you think?)

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by GSDSRULE on 10 August 2009 - 04:08

I don't care for the color myself, but it is a GSD.
Personally, I wish the brindle color had not been blacklisted.
And amen to LuvAllGSDcolors! I would take the unwanted, not all that attractive to me color
over the roached back, ski slope, wobbly legged hock walkers any day. What are those
show people thinking? Don't you know you have made our beloved breed a laughingstock?
I have seen those poor dogs get tangled up in their own feet and fall down. What kind of
working dog does that make? Hell, what kind of pet does that make? Can't get out of its
own way to chase a ball?

by pod on 10 August 2009 - 07:08

PM, I'm really interested to know what is actually meant by that statement.... whether they mean that a double panda (homozygote) will not occur because of death in utero, or that they simply don't look any different from a heterozygote.

Also, loss of pigment, which is essentially what white markings are down to, is associated with hearing defects when large areas of the head are involved. Do they believe that the panda markiings are not included in this?

If you have a contact email, I'd very much like to find out more.

ETA: I've now found the contact details for M Neff. Thank you for the previous info PM.

by Panda Mom on 12 August 2009 - 02:08

Pod,
Have you found anything out yet as to why a double panda is not possible? I'd like to know more about the genetics.

by pod on 12 August 2009 - 09:08

Sorry no, I haven't got round to it yet. I will do it now :-)

by Sunsilver on 13 August 2009 - 22:08

Personally, I think what the geneticist said got misinterpreted. A gene that acts with 'full penetrance' is one that is fully expressed every time it is present, as opposed to one that can be partially masked by other color genes. So, the panda color only requires the presence of one panda gene. If both color alleles coded for panda, the dog would MOST DEFINITELY be panda! (Genes occur in pairs, as each dog has 23 pairs of chromosomes.)

The geneticist didn't say a double panda dog was impossible. He merely said one hadn't been produced yet, probably due to concern about too close inbreeding on Frankie!

by pod on 14 August 2009 - 22:08

Have some info from Dr Neff and yes, he does believe the homozygote (double panda) to be impossible. There have now been several panda x panda breedings and a total of ~75 panda marked dogs produced overall. I'm not sure if all of these have been DNA tested, but no mutant homozygotes have been recorded in the ones that have.

Panda x panda breedings should ordinarily produce ~25% panda homozygotes overall, so this is statistically significant and leads to the conclusion that panda is lethal in the homozygous form.

by Sunsilver on 14 August 2009 - 22:08

Okay, never considered that possibility... and given that a number of colour genes cause lethal defects in homozygous form, I SHOULD have!

by pod on 14 August 2009 - 22:08

I don't know of any other colour genes (ETA: in dogs) Sunsilver..... only bobtail and hairlessness spring to mind.

by Sunsilver on 14 August 2009 - 23:08

The merle gene can be lethal in its homozygous form in a number of different dog breeds. White is associated with deafness, and can be lethal as well, I think.

by GSD Justice on 15 August 2009 - 00:08

I found the note Mark Neff sent concerning the Panda Shepherd and he said he is "reasonably confident" that there are no health issues and he would love to test future liters. I would need to ask Mark what he meant but that sounds to me like he is saying he did not identify any concerns and wants to test further. In my world, when I say reasonably confident I would put a percentage of 51% on the matter. That is a far cry from a declaration that there are no issues. Perhaps after 130 years of GSD breeding we find that we can advance the breed based on abstract mutations? What am I missing? Fix the dogs that show mutations and save the world the trouble. Bottom line: they are still GSD's with fault. Damaged goods is another way of saying "fault". Fix the animal and make it a pet. Breeding is not a good idea unless greed is a factor.

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