Origin of Arched Back - Page 11

Wildmoor, who says the angle should be 120 degrees?  And can you show photo of a dog you believe to have this angle.

Pod

I am not on my main comp so no I dont have access to pics, but looking at the picture the other person posted I would guess angle of  stifle joint to be approx 170 - 180 degrees maybe some one can assess by copying picture and use lines - although I am aware photos can be deceiving
Please read -FCI-Standard N° 166  -

"Wildmoor, who says the angle should be 120 degrees?"

FCI World Standard for the GSD, that's who.  Note also that the dog in your picture also does not have an upper arm that meets the standard, either.  

That's not to say he can't do well on the Schutzhund field - he looks like a great jumper - but he doesn't have a correct build for sheepherding, the original purpose of the breed.

http://www.workingdogs.com/standard_fci.htm

The extreme angles asked for in standards are for show puposes and not necessarily the ideal construction for original pupose, or probably any athletic activity.

Even so, the stifle angle of the typical showline dog is more acute than 120 degrees.  The forehand angle, actually goes the other way.  The 90 degrees asked for in the standards is an impossibility in a dog of normal construction, and is found only in achondroplastic breeds where the concertina effect of limb shortening makes angles more acute.

Sorry very little time at the mo, will return to this later.

even if the angles is for show it does nothing good for the dog but he looks like they walk with a kind of problem does not look naturel or and is not healthy for the dog it is only to serve the people's need to win in a show ring

it is nothing to do with show dogs it is the breed standard - most breeds stifle angle are between 110 and 130 but there are exceptions ie Boxer 90-110 and Chows 150 so at 120 a GSD is not extreme are you now saying Boxers cant work because of their stifle angle?
if you continualy breed for the other extreme ie angles 160-180 you will have rear limb abnormalities and end up with straight legged GSD and due to lack of angle & exstension in the stifle it will make HD more common as the leg as to flex during movement especialy at a trot if the stifle can not then the hip joint will extend further than it should and there fore be forced out of the hip socket

When theory is commonplace in the work/performance venue, I will accept it as right. To achieve certain interpretations of standards, requires certain breeding practices. These practices often decrease the working/performance in the majority of the dogs that take on these ideals both structurally and mentally. I honestly don't think the origin of the breed was to achieve this result.JMO

angles are clearly laid out in the standard. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/structure_information/1.html one's personal preferences are just that, personal preference.

Like stated before, I'm not sure that any  dog has hit the 90 degree shoulder, but there are many very close. It is the ideal determined for a dog to trot for hours. I don't think long stifles or cow hocked contribute at all to this ability, but it is what it is.

I think Gustav put it pretty well. A serious breeder is going to define what their goals are and hang their hat on something. If it's show, then they are going to breed what will win. same for work and/or sport. since there are no perfect dogs, some compromises are going to be made in areas further from the goal.

jmo,

Rik

smiley, never apoligize for starting an interesting thread.

Klodo von Boxberg 1925 sieger winner , as far as i know the arched backs started from him

to bad but the many of the working lines are more and more anguled that just 10 years ago many of them look like frogs to sadly, with the arched back and angulations in the hindlegs