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by Abby Normal on 10 December 2010 - 19:12
Bring it on - more views, well over 3000 now
Q Should all breeding stock be tested?
Q Should all breeding stock be tested?
by missbeeb on 10 December 2010 - 20:12
Q Should I tie myself to the railings at
by Videx on 10 December 2010 - 20:12
Perhaps we should consider the Flat Coated Retriever (FCR) breed, here within the UK
THE FCR BREED IS RIDDLED, YES ABSOLUTELY RIDDLED WITH JRD - They are struggling to find some CLEARS - they are overwhelmed with this disease. with NUMEROUS homo-zygote carriers of JRD (Juvenile Renal Dysplasia)
Now there is a cause!
Very few dwarfs are actually born, even though a great many TOP GSD stud dogs are likely to be carriers. Double Siegers, Siegers and VA males & females are and have been carriers. Is PD a serious problem for our GSD breed - absolutely NOT.
THE FCR BREED IS RIDDLED, YES ABSOLUTELY RIDDLED WITH JRD - They are struggling to find some CLEARS - they are overwhelmed with this disease. with NUMEROUS homo-zygote carriers of JRD (Juvenile Renal Dysplasia)
Now there is a cause!
Very few dwarfs are actually born, even though a great many TOP GSD stud dogs are likely to be carriers. Double Siegers, Siegers and VA males & females are and have been carriers. Is PD a serious problem for our GSD breed - absolutely NOT.
by Wildmoor on 10 December 2010 - 21:12
A/N. Another who likes to state I am saying something I am not I am not 100% sure who you are but one of 2 females I was just pointing out what I had been informed by owners of dogs mentioned Yes a couple of weeks ago I was informed about a condition in a WG line Dog but after confering with orthopeadic surgeons I found out that what I was Told is not even a technical term and have had no further clarification from the Owner of what the condition is. My point is elbow scoring as been around since 1998 how many scored in that year? 3? 4? Hip scoring for around 50+ years, some still not doing this some are but ignoring results The AF test as been around as long as the PD test if not slighly longer how many dogs tested? By your constant bumps etc you are doing yourself no favours Your target audience should be potential puppy purchasers, why do you think more breeders (even the bad ones) Are now elbow scoring? Another point is PD producers are not just in the WG lines but in the work lines and the coloured lines Like the eye test I wouldn't recommend all dogs be tested, but I know certain lines should be same as the AF test Or heart testing All you are doing at the moment is getting peoples backs up instead of being informative
by Abby Normal on 10 December 2010 - 22:12
Flat coated retrievers, what a shame they have such a terrible problem. Hope their breed clubs and geneticists are coming up with a strategy to improve the situation. Did it get so bad because no-one thought it was much of a problem in the beginning, didn't need to test, didn't screen dogs? Perhaps someone said 'is JRD a serious problem for our breed - absolutely not'. I don't know, not being involved with flat coats, but I sympathise and hope that they can gradually recover their breed health. I do know one GSD who had JRD, and sadly died aged about 4. Beautiful dog too.
Wildmoor, if you think I am anyone remotely connected with off colours you are way, way off beam. In fact I can guarantee you don't know me. But that's beside the point. I said your statement came across as sounding as though only colours have the problems. The fact that elbow testing, and hip screening was not taken up immediately is simply because breeders are slow to respond to new health tests - I get that. One of the universities that are recommending PD testing set the bar quite low as in terms of their recommendations, for that very reason - they quoted resistance from breeders as an issue. I thought we had moved on from 50 years ago, and were more advanced in our thinking about health testing, and as tests became available would welcome them with open arms. Yes, you are right, some still don't hip score and some ignore results and breed anyway - that's just bad breeders, and there will always be those. I am talking about mainstream breeding. We berate the KC about health testing, but then resist or at least do not encourage use of the new health tests available. Why are the breed council/GSDL so disinterested? The condition nor the test even get a mention on 'health' pages. Nor does AF. I have had a dog with AF, I certainly agree that this also is a test that should be being taken up too.
BTW many people on here are puppy purchasers, and I had one pm saying that they had now decided not to go to a particular well known breeder that they had originally intended to go to for a puppy, but will now be seeking a puppy from elsewhere who does test.
Wildmoor, if you think I am anyone remotely connected with off colours you are way, way off beam. In fact I can guarantee you don't know me. But that's beside the point. I said your statement came across as sounding as though only colours have the problems. The fact that elbow testing, and hip screening was not taken up immediately is simply because breeders are slow to respond to new health tests - I get that. One of the universities that are recommending PD testing set the bar quite low as in terms of their recommendations, for that very reason - they quoted resistance from breeders as an issue. I thought we had moved on from 50 years ago, and were more advanced in our thinking about health testing, and as tests became available would welcome them with open arms. Yes, you are right, some still don't hip score and some ignore results and breed anyway - that's just bad breeders, and there will always be those. I am talking about mainstream breeding. We berate the KC about health testing, but then resist or at least do not encourage use of the new health tests available. Why are the breed council/GSDL so disinterested? The condition nor the test even get a mention on 'health' pages. Nor does AF. I have had a dog with AF, I certainly agree that this also is a test that should be being taken up too.
BTW many people on here are puppy purchasers, and I had one pm saying that they had now decided not to go to a particular well known breeder that they had originally intended to go to for a puppy, but will now be seeking a puppy from elsewhere who does test.
by georgehopwood on 11 December 2010 - 23:12
abbey......yes all breeding dogs should be tested xx
by georgehopwood on 11 December 2010 - 23:12
Videx you norty man
by Sue B on 11 December 2010 - 23:12
May I refer you to the post made by ChrissiDrake on Page 2 of this thread who provided non factual information of an incorrect nature.
The poster ChrissiDrake made reference to a female she called "Kelly v d Allhedy's Hoeve" who she claimed was the sister of Sieger Kimon, presumably meaning the 1994 German Sieger Kimon van Dan Alhedy's Hoeve, in which case Chrissi is incorrect. Please see below:-
FACT - The 1994 German Sieger Kimon van Dan Alhedy's Hoeve DID NOT have a sister named Kelly (only one called Kalle NHSB 1682783).
FACT - There was a female pet name of Kellie - who formed part of the "C" litter born on the 19th August 1995 she died 16th September 2004 her sire was Apoll vom Laacher-Haus and her dam Vellow van Dan Alhedy's Hoeve.
FACT - There was also a Kelly van Dan Alheady's Hoeve NHSB 1921206 born on 2nd Nov 1993 who was sired by Sieger Kimon out of dam Nikki v Morsinkshof NHSB 1711069.
Whatever the name of the Dwarf you were looking at all those years ago Chrissi, it certainly wasnt a Kelly sister of Kimon, so maybe it is 'Rocket Science' after all!!
Regards
Sue B
PS - FYI In the interest of the breed I have reported the post containing this non factual information to the database moderators as it could be both misleading and damaging to the descendants of the animal/s so named within it.
The poster ChrissiDrake made reference to a female she called "Kelly v d Allhedy's Hoeve" who she claimed was the sister of Sieger Kimon, presumably meaning the 1994 German Sieger Kimon van Dan Alhedy's Hoeve, in which case Chrissi is incorrect. Please see below:-
FACT - The 1994 German Sieger Kimon van Dan Alhedy's Hoeve DID NOT have a sister named Kelly (only one called Kalle NHSB 1682783).
FACT - There was a female pet name of Kellie - who formed part of the "C" litter born on the 19th August 1995 she died 16th September 2004 her sire was Apoll vom Laacher-Haus and her dam Vellow van Dan Alhedy's Hoeve.
FACT - There was also a Kelly van Dan Alheady's Hoeve NHSB 1921206 born on 2nd Nov 1993 who was sired by Sieger Kimon out of dam Nikki v Morsinkshof NHSB 1711069.
Whatever the name of the Dwarf you were looking at all those years ago Chrissi, it certainly wasnt a Kelly sister of Kimon, so maybe it is 'Rocket Science' after all!!
Regards
Sue B
PS - FYI In the interest of the breed I have reported the post containing this non factual information to the database moderators as it could be both misleading and damaging to the descendants of the animal/s so named within it.
by Videx on 12 December 2010 - 07:12
very confident prediction: very few breeding GSD will be tested, indeed minuscule numbers will be tested - as in the Netherlands and everywhere else around the world. Why? because by ant analysis PD is not considered a problem, for what many consider very good reasons, especially compared with the vast majority of other health problems throughout the canine species.
by ChrissiDrake on 12 December 2010 - 12:12
SUE B. My apologies !. We all make mistakes occasionally, god only knows you have made enough of your own !.
If you read certain articles written by the breeder himself you will see he refers to the dwarf in question as KELLY and KELLIE within the same article. Another point we must all remember is DO NOT TRUST the pedigrees submitted on this website, they are very often tampered with !. There was a pedigree on here naming the dwarf Kelly / Kellie as Kimon's Sister and another pedigree naming the dwarf as the half Sister with the Mother being Candy, these pedigrees have since been conveniently removed.
However --- why you and videx are hell bent on sabotaging this thread with your nonsical denials of the severity of the pituitary dwarf situtaion is beyond comprehension !. Hutch on the other hand is absolutely definitely acting in the interest of the GSD breed, if all breeders followed her lead the GSD breed would soon be rid of the dwarfism problem, what Hutch is doing is NOT rocket science, it's the most sensible common sense way of dealing with an ever escalating life threatening problem.
Videx you of all people who constantly bang on about the KC and GSD health issues are showing yourself up for what you are !. You trying to brainwash everyone into thinking people are not PD testing is false information and you know it !, you should be saying ( more nearer to the truth ) is that only a few people are revealing their test results if they are carriers !. PD not only affects the breeds future it in itself reduces the gene pool, it affects breeders , it affects the owners and more importantly it affects the poor suffering dwarfs that some attached owners keep alive !. You and your minority of followers say you are concerned about reducing the gene pool if prolific stud dog carriers are not used --- when in reality it is those such dogs and you and the likes that are continuing to reduce the gene pool without any outside help by you breeding with whatever dogs that are winning at top level regardless of how much added inbreeding there is in the pedigrees and regardless of what health problems you are enhancing along the way !. You might fool some naive people with your desperate pushing of JRD testing ( GSD cases very few and far between ! ) and to my knowledge no mention of JRD on any GSD autopsy reports to date !, please correct me if I'm wrong and please post any such reports. There is no comparison whatsoever with JRD and the severity of other far more serious health issues.
IS PD A SERIOUS PROBLEM FOR OUR GSD BREED ?
ABSOLUTELY YES !!!.
If you read certain articles written by the breeder himself you will see he refers to the dwarf in question as KELLY and KELLIE within the same article. Another point we must all remember is DO NOT TRUST the pedigrees submitted on this website, they are very often tampered with !. There was a pedigree on here naming the dwarf Kelly / Kellie as Kimon's Sister and another pedigree naming the dwarf as the half Sister with the Mother being Candy, these pedigrees have since been conveniently removed.
However --- why you and videx are hell bent on sabotaging this thread with your nonsical denials of the severity of the pituitary dwarf situtaion is beyond comprehension !. Hutch on the other hand is absolutely definitely acting in the interest of the GSD breed, if all breeders followed her lead the GSD breed would soon be rid of the dwarfism problem, what Hutch is doing is NOT rocket science, it's the most sensible common sense way of dealing with an ever escalating life threatening problem.
Videx you of all people who constantly bang on about the KC and GSD health issues are showing yourself up for what you are !. You trying to brainwash everyone into thinking people are not PD testing is false information and you know it !, you should be saying ( more nearer to the truth ) is that only a few people are revealing their test results if they are carriers !. PD not only affects the breeds future it in itself reduces the gene pool, it affects breeders , it affects the owners and more importantly it affects the poor suffering dwarfs that some attached owners keep alive !. You and your minority of followers say you are concerned about reducing the gene pool if prolific stud dog carriers are not used --- when in reality it is those such dogs and you and the likes that are continuing to reduce the gene pool without any outside help by you breeding with whatever dogs that are winning at top level regardless of how much added inbreeding there is in the pedigrees and regardless of what health problems you are enhancing along the way !. You might fool some naive people with your desperate pushing of JRD testing ( GSD cases very few and far between ! ) and to my knowledge no mention of JRD on any GSD autopsy reports to date !, please correct me if I'm wrong and please post any such reports. There is no comparison whatsoever with JRD and the severity of other far more serious health issues.
IS PD A SERIOUS PROBLEM FOR OUR GSD BREED ?
ABSOLUTELY YES !!!.
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