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by Jackal73 on 28 October 2009 - 15:10
Did all the wolves you worked with eventually become so easy to get along with?
The full wolves and high content hybrids weren't a problem, but they were treated like the wild animals they are (i.e. they were kept appropriately in big enclosures, able to socialize with others of their own kind, and weren't expected to act like dogs). Some of them were used for public education (i.e. taken to older school groups, that sort of thing), but it was always very carefully managed not to stress the animal too much. They're not aggressive, really. They're just very neophobic (afraid of or excited by new or different things), and not inclined to let humans get away with stuff like dogs are. (Try physical domination with a wolf and it *will* come back on you. You have to treat them with respect and work with them for them to work with you.) The low content hybrids (or those that threw on the "dog" end of the spectrum, because half-half genetics doesn't always get expressed as an even split) are basically the same as any of the more independent nordic breeds in regard to working with them, meaning that they're perfectly good dogs, but not stars at obedience.
Is it mythology that they eventually turn on people?
Mythology in the sense that it's some sort of pre-programmed treachery or viciousness. Mishandle a wolf or hybrid and it will react -- with force. Push it too far outside it's comfort zone (where it perceives itself to be threatened and unable to run away) and it *will* react. Forget that it's a wild animal and not a dog and treat it with contempt and it *will* react. Essentially you have to accept that the wolf is a wolf, and not expect it to be a dog -- and respect its' needs and drives -- and then there won't be a problem. In cases where people have problems with hybrids here (we have a lot of hybrids, because we have wolves, and very few people, so accidents happen with non-deliberate interbreeding) in every case the handler made a mistake (or a chain of mistakes) that led to the problem. Then unfortunately the animal ususally ends up destroyed. It's sad. Have you looked up Wolf Park? I don't think they're in your vicinity, but they have a lot of excellent information available about how to identify wolf dogs, how to keep them, etc.
Falco (my dog) is a handsome fellow -- just as well that he's beautiful because whoever had him before me made a real mess of him behaviorally. He's a good boy at heart though, and learning. And yes, his eyes certainly took some getting used to. Now they're perfectly normal to me too.
The full wolves and high content hybrids weren't a problem, but they were treated like the wild animals they are (i.e. they were kept appropriately in big enclosures, able to socialize with others of their own kind, and weren't expected to act like dogs). Some of them were used for public education (i.e. taken to older school groups, that sort of thing), but it was always very carefully managed not to stress the animal too much. They're not aggressive, really. They're just very neophobic (afraid of or excited by new or different things), and not inclined to let humans get away with stuff like dogs are. (Try physical domination with a wolf and it *will* come back on you. You have to treat them with respect and work with them for them to work with you.) The low content hybrids (or those that threw on the "dog" end of the spectrum, because half-half genetics doesn't always get expressed as an even split) are basically the same as any of the more independent nordic breeds in regard to working with them, meaning that they're perfectly good dogs, but not stars at obedience.
Is it mythology that they eventually turn on people?
Mythology in the sense that it's some sort of pre-programmed treachery or viciousness. Mishandle a wolf or hybrid and it will react -- with force. Push it too far outside it's comfort zone (where it perceives itself to be threatened and unable to run away) and it *will* react. Forget that it's a wild animal and not a dog and treat it with contempt and it *will* react. Essentially you have to accept that the wolf is a wolf, and not expect it to be a dog -- and respect its' needs and drives -- and then there won't be a problem. In cases where people have problems with hybrids here (we have a lot of hybrids, because we have wolves, and very few people, so accidents happen with non-deliberate interbreeding) in every case the handler made a mistake (or a chain of mistakes) that led to the problem. Then unfortunately the animal ususally ends up destroyed. It's sad. Have you looked up Wolf Park? I don't think they're in your vicinity, but they have a lot of excellent information available about how to identify wolf dogs, how to keep them, etc.
Falco (my dog) is a handsome fellow -- just as well that he's beautiful because whoever had him before me made a real mess of him behaviorally. He's a good boy at heart though, and learning. And yes, his eyes certainly took some getting used to. Now they're perfectly normal to me too.
by VomMarischal on 28 October 2009 - 16:10
Thanks for the detailed answers. They help a lot.
Well, I've never felt the need to assert my bossy superiority over dogs, so I guess in this instance it's just as well. I never did believe that dogs would mistake me for another dog and accept my "place in the pack"...I always think it's better to have mutual respect between two separate species (I know, not a popular theory). I believe and act this way simply because most of the GSDs I know could beat me up if they wanted to, so I'm opting for a more level playing field: we're equal but different, and I'm the one with the food/toy so if they want it they have to cooperate. I'm the first one to admit that it doesn't always work, but it's how I like it.
I will look up Wolf Park now!
Luckily, this wolf dog has been well socialized somewhere along the line...makes me think he's a victim of the economy, getting dumped out in the country where he'd be fine, "back in the wild." Ill advised, yes, but someone did spend some time and effort on him. Freaking economy sure ruins dogs' lives.
I have been watching lots of vids. This one gives me LOTS of hints for training future abused/unsocialized/overly-dominant dogs, even though it's a wolf-dog:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqK5rZ_ya3Q
Well, I've never felt the need to assert my bossy superiority over dogs, so I guess in this instance it's just as well. I never did believe that dogs would mistake me for another dog and accept my "place in the pack"...I always think it's better to have mutual respect between two separate species (I know, not a popular theory). I believe and act this way simply because most of the GSDs I know could beat me up if they wanted to, so I'm opting for a more level playing field: we're equal but different, and I'm the one with the food/toy so if they want it they have to cooperate. I'm the first one to admit that it doesn't always work, but it's how I like it.
I will look up Wolf Park now!
Luckily, this wolf dog has been well socialized somewhere along the line...makes me think he's a victim of the economy, getting dumped out in the country where he'd be fine, "back in the wild." Ill advised, yes, but someone did spend some time and effort on him. Freaking economy sure ruins dogs' lives.
I have been watching lots of vids. This one gives me LOTS of hints for training future abused/unsocialized/overly-dominant dogs, even though it's a wolf-dog:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqK5rZ_ya3Q
by Jackal73 on 28 October 2009 - 16:10
That whole "pecking order in the pack" thing has developed into something far too rigid in the public understanding anyway. The original study that published "alpha theory" was flawed (relying on wolves who were introduced as unrelated adults, forced into close confinement in a zoo) and is long outdated. Modern wolf biologists speak of the "breeding pair", not the alpha(s), and they only have authority over the other wolves either because they're young wolves they are raising, or because they choose to stay with the pack. Different wolves assert themselves and take the lead with different activities (for example a wolf that can't be bothered to posture or fight for the first portion of food might be the leader when the pack hunts big dangerous game because he's *good* at it). Pack dynamics are relatively fluid and situational. Individuals can and will fight, but usually if they can't resolve healthy conflict with low level squabbling one wolf will just leave, and find a new territory for themselves or join up with others to form a different pack. Feral dog packs are even more fluid and unstructured, with individuals coming and going at will.
Essentially the leader is the one who controls the resources (and who is a benevolent leader, not one that controls through continous intimidation). Since I have opposable thumbs and the job that pays for food and treats I control the good stuff. :D My dogs have never needed more than that (I insist on politeness and good manners but I'm not a martinet). If someone feels driven to be in total control of absolutely everything all the time their dog probably sees them as insecure, rather than the opposite.
Essentially the leader is the one who controls the resources (and who is a benevolent leader, not one that controls through continous intimidation). Since I have opposable thumbs and the job that pays for food and treats I control the good stuff. :D My dogs have never needed more than that (I insist on politeness and good manners but I'm not a martinet). If someone feels driven to be in total control of absolutely everything all the time their dog probably sees them as insecure, rather than the opposite.
by VomMarischal on 30 October 2009 - 19:10
Spoiled Rotten Wolfdog
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by 4pack on 30 October 2009 - 22:10
He doesn't look very wolfish to me. Eyes are very round not slanted and the ears are still rather big. The front legs are what look most wolfish. There is a Wolf Sanctuary in Sac. I took a cert there a few years ago, you are suppossed to be certified to have or handle wolf/wolf hybreds in county. After seeing how much work and liability I said no thanks. I will try to find their link if they are still around.
by 4pack on 30 October 2009 - 22:10
Found them, I suggest taking a drive to see them...his house is ran over by wolves in a subdivision even. You will quickly see how they take over if you visit. Maybe they can help find him a home closer so you can visit. AZ seems far.
http://www.nevercrywolfrescue.com/default.asp
by 4pack on 30 October 2009 - 22:10
Oh wait...is this him already? 78lbs, sable male, looks like your furniture.
http://www.nevercrywolfrescue.com/adoption.asp
by Jackal73 on 30 October 2009 - 23:10
That pictures great. So much for the "glories" of life in the wild. Snoozing on the sofa is more comfortable! :D
by VomMarischal on 31 October 2009 - 00:10
He definitely decided that this furniture thing is the way to go. Have to admit, though, that when I caught him and took the picture, he had the decency to skulk away in humiliation.
Yep, 4Pack, that's him on NeverCryWolf's site. I'm going to try to get some movement vid of him. He is odd. His eyes are REALLY round, although the actual eyelids are are much slantier than, say, Jackal's dog's. It's just that he never seems to blink. Weird.
I'm going to put a bonnet and some big specs and an apron on him tomorrow.
Yep, 4Pack, that's him on NeverCryWolf's site. I'm going to try to get some movement vid of him. He is odd. His eyes are REALLY round, although the actual eyelids are are much slantier than, say, Jackal's dog's. It's just that he never seems to blink. Weird.
I'm going to put a bonnet and some big specs and an apron on him tomorrow.
by VomMarischal on 01 November 2009 - 01:11
HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
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