The Showline Breeders MOVEMENT for the breed - Page 1

I have recently seen a breeding trend with the showline dogs that has caused me some concern.  I am not a very old breeder,  but I have also been around the breed for close to 15 years now.  I am seeing a trend towards "hackney" gaiting in the front, very cowhocked rears, and bad ear sets on many high placing show dogs and brood dogs.  I have noticed that the dogs aren't using their fronts correctly,  and alot of wasted movement where the dogs are bringing the leg up at the elbow instead of the shoulders fully opening up. movement similar to alot of your terrier breeds, not typical of the balanced fliud movement you are supposed to see on a gaiting breed.

Also, what is happening with the ears?  either you have ears that resemble a donkey's, or the leather is weak and the ears stand out, and not up.

The rears are even starting to look like AKC conformation dogs.  I can't tell if it is from croups that are too steep, or if there is way too much angulation. THE BREED IS SUPPOSED TO WORK AND MOVE ALL DAY WITHOUT TIRING! I have even noticed more round eyes and light pigment on these dogs.  Not just you average bred dogs either,  but many progeny from the top VA's.  why are these dogs being put up and bred when there are noticable faults?

And why would you breed a bitch that needs hormones to get pregnant, has 1 or 2 pup litters, needs c-sections etc?  that just promotes more reproduction problems with their progeny.

I feel the thinking has came down to this " Oh, she has weak ears, or eyes are too round, or maybe even her character is a little off,  but she comes from a great kennel or sire." "Just breed to the best VA dog around, besides having 10-14 VA dogs in 4gen. always looks good on paper and will sell puppies."

Also, Ursus has been said to be the most important stud in recent years, or even in the breed.  Too many litters are being bred that are 2,3 or closer on him and his progeny.  We have yet to see what trouble will come from this.  Same thing happened to Canto Arminius, and even Lance of Fran-Jo in america.  We are going to breed ourselves into a bottleneck with no way out. 

I don't know,  just a raining day here in Texas. My mind is probably just rambling along for no reason.

I will now go back into hiding, and put on my flame retardent suit before the the flaming starts.

Oh, before I go into hiding, I am not pro showline, or working line,  just a good honest dog.

Uber,

No need to get on the fire suit.  You have the right to your own opinion, and you bring up some very good points.  The GSD was developed as a working dog, and the Siegers and Siegerins of today have changed dramatically since the foundation of the breed. 

Unfortunately, whenever ego and money are involved, there's bound to be trouble.  Many people have a difficult time seeing the faults in their own dogs.  They love them to a fault, to use a popular pun, and are willing to breed to suit the eye of the fanciers who have their own definition of "beautiful". 

An interesting point... I see many ads for GSD's that say, "Puppies born!  Now taking deposits!".  However, as I've been shopping for a Malinois for my husband I instead find breeders who say "I don't know when I'll have a litter this year, or even if I will.  I need to get enough deposits to know I can place the pups in working homes."

That's the first I've heard breeders talking like that.  I'm not saying that GSD breeders are puppy millers, but just look at all the ads here on this site and make your own judgment.

Yvette

I certainly won't trash you!  I agree with your opinions. 

The big money thing is ruining the breed both in Germany and here in North America and all over the world.  Most of the show dogs are trained by professionals who well know how to hide temperament faults and get a passing score out of dogs with sub-standard temperament.  Then they never have to do a trial except to pass the bite work at a show, which is a joke. 

Then many more puppies are bred from beautiful looking, but temperamentally defective dogs, because they have placed high V or VA in shows and the beat goes on...

I love the show dogs, their movement and structure, but deplore the show scene.  I hope to one day breed beautiful dogs that can work and I know they are out there.  We need breeders who don't care about the money and who have goals that do not include having the largest trophies and the biggest brag sections on their websites as to how many dogs they have bred or shown that got VA or V1 somewhere (like Lower Dogpatch!).

We need devoted, fearless and independent breeders to bring the show and working dogs back to one noble, loved and respected breed that has outstanding character, is a family dog, is beautiful beyond compare, moves like a dream and works without a trace of fear to protect his family, sheep or home.  We need breeders whose love of the breed and integrity overshadows all other considerations to someday achieve the goals that Max dreamed of.

Who are you?  Where are you?  Kirschental? Arlett? 

SchHbabe,

if your looking at malinois breeders don't forget to contact Mike ellis. here is his website  www.loupsdusoleil.com.  I believe he is one of the best malinois breeders in the country.

Another thought on this matter... some time ago I made a post on roach back squatting rear dogs, and the tone was a bit tongue in cheek as I merrily suggested we should "spread the religion" to other breeds, since no other breed in the Herding or Working group has a naturally roached back. 

I challenged the breeders of this type of dog to explain how breeding roached back dogs would improve the working ability of the breed.  After all, the GSD is supposed to be a utilitarian animal, not some frou frou powder puff dog looking pretty in the ring and on your living room rug. 

I was not trying to stir the working dog vs. show dog controversy, but instead was hoping to hear show dog vs show dog.  Not all showline dogs have roached back and over angulated rears.  I was earnestly hoping to hear one showline breeder attempt to explain how the roach and rear was improving the working abilities, and see how the other breeders would respond.

Sadly, I never did get even one breeder to give a factual explanation of how changing the topline of the dog to suit the fancy of the eye was making an improvement.  Therefore, I am left with the conclusion that the breeders that are producing this type of dog are NOT doing so for the improvement of the breed, but rather just for looks, money, ego, or who knows what other ignoble motives.

In the meanwhile, the latest issue of USA magazine, there's another well illustrated article by Linda Shaw that illustrates faulty backs and toplines in GSD's and the consequences of poor backs:  roached, sway, too short, too long.  I am not making the claim that this lady is the world expert on GSD physiology, but her articles are very well done.

Yvette