Inbreeding 2-2 - Page 1

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by flaviuscilan on 12 April 2022 - 05:04

Do you think there is a problem with Inbreeding 2-2 ? Does anyone know valuable dogs through such inbreeding? Send if you know

by Mike Delaney on 12 April 2022 - 08:04

Its too close. No reason to do it.


by DuganVomEichenluft on 12 April 2022 - 12:04

I've "seen" 2-2 done before by a very well known and experienced breeder, Koos Hassing of van Tiekerhook. Otherwise, it's never a good idea.

by dogsportman357 on 12 April 2022 - 13:04

I have heard of 2-2 being pulled off successfully, as Dugan mentioned by Tiekerhook. Another Case I know of is in Banji Israel (linked below), who then produced the 2009 WUSV winner and 2010 runner up Sam.

I imagine this sort of breeding comes with its risks, and I would be very interested to hear from some members who are more knowledgable when it comes to breeding as to what its pros/cons are. I wonder in what sorts of cases the risk calculus makes for a good bargain.


by flaviuscilan on 12 April 2022 - 19:04

Woooww thanks information guys... Anyone who knows anything else to comment is waiting for answers.

by HausHarshbarger on 12 April 2022 - 20:04

SV has made the current allowable inbreeding no closer than 3-2.
Many fail to understand the risks and benefits of inbreeding, and consequently make errors in planning.
Widespread low level (far out) linebreeding can be considerably more harmful than a focused close up linebreeding to a phenotypically desirable ancestor whose genetic contribution is abundantly evident in the phenotypes of both sire and dam.
There remains considerable variability, but this is the principle means of influencing genetic prepotency.
Ignoring the ridiculous hyperbole expressed by people who do not understand the scientific mechanism, regarding all sorts of spectacular failures resulting from linebreeding, the very real downside of loss of genetic diversity is linebreeding depression, the direct opposite of hybrid vigor.
It is inherent to any pure breed that a significant loss of genetic diversity exists, which enables us to better maintain and improve a standard type and set of characteristics.
We accept this benefit along with the understanding of the burden of potential loss of natural vigor, as we also know that we can select against the negative characteristics that might be manifested as aspects of linebreeding depression, such as specific health issues, as well as sensitivity or susceptibility to various types of malaise...
In short, it's really a big picture thing.
Don't breed to a male just because he's not bad.
A male should have significant excellence to bring to a breeding, or he is not of any value.
He should reinforce the good characteristics of the female, and correct the failings as much as possible.
He should also clearly display himself as as an optimal specimen, and demonstrate his ability to produce better than himself.
Numbers are just numbers.
They are used primarily for exclusion.
2-2 is too close.
HDZW and GZW numbers should be kept as low as possible.
Every breeding should have a special goal.


by Rik on 13 April 2022 - 22:04

agree with Dugan, not a good idea unless a breeder knows very well several generations and what to expect. no matter how good on paper the faults come through just as strong as the good traits.

edit to add, idealy any good breeder should be familiar with the backgrounds.


by besimlekovic on 16 April 2022 - 16:04

Would you merit yor son or your daughter with your brothers son or daughter,this is the way human destroyed every breed and everything els .


by Hundmutter on 17 April 2022 - 01:04

Besimlekovic, there is little comparison with incestuous relationships between humans !  Plenty of those exist, despite the fact that almost all human societies condemn / have condemned them - there are many offspring of father-daughter or brother-sister etc incest quietly walking among us; and think about the way eg the great Phaeronic dynasties worked in early Egypt. The world is not ( & was not) full of 2-headed freaks.

There is a case for not allowing it, because eventually it results in the 'Linebreeding Depression' talked about above, and yes that can result in limb deformities, weakened immune systems leading to more disease, mental deficiencies and so on - but they hardly ever occur in the first (F1) canine generation produced. I've watched it happen over the years in a herd of captive deer, so do not recommend it; but dog breeders do occasionally find it a useful method to 'fix' particular qualities in a Breed.  IT IS REALLY NOT A MORAL ISSUE, its a genetic one.


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