GSDCA TT/TC - Page 1

I wanted to get my dog CHIC cleared eventually so I had to complete the TC. I thought, great I am glad they are making an effort to preserve the integrity of the breed in that respect. I was so disappointed. One of the tests was to have the dog approach an expanding large black umbrella pointing at the ground. If they touch it by fearfully investigating it with a whisker they technically pass that section, albeit with a low grade on the score book but no consequence for the title unless they really fuck up. I saw dogs pass that spooked at everything but managed to flail through it enough to scrape by and really should not have. Cowering at the gunshot/etc. is not helpful in a real life scenario, there isn't any time for that issue-I am not talking about dogs regaining confidence after a brief startle. I am extremely disappointed at the standards and I feel like ATTS should be accepted as a substitute if a temperament test is going to be required for CHIC. My ATTS test was a wildly different experience and much more unbiased in their judgement. Not to mention the likely preferential treatment to club members.

I feel like the scheme is very useful when applied well but this is not ideal. Another issue is having to wait years between tests. Taking out such a requirement entirely seems worse, but it would be too broad of a requirement on OFA to just list "working title" as a substitute, I would think. I'll end on a funny note, the test is outdoors and my dog began urinating piror to the gunshot portion (not a DQ in this test thankfully) and as the man behind us shot the gun he did not flinch and continued to urinate. He had not been exposed to gunshots prior to this. On my last post people had doubts about his temperament at a young age, rightfully so-but he has succeeded and we have accepted a position as a detection dog team as well. (have to brag about that somewhere, i'm proud of us!). I took all the advice about nosework to heart and went down that avenue. Special thanks to @diamondgal for the pedigree analysis and @rik @hundmutter.

I'm glad we were of some help Nicole, although its a shame you feel the testing you describe above has been less helpful to what you are trying to do. Honestly can't comment on that, its all well outside my personal experience and location ! I'll let others come back on those issues, if they will.

Hope too that GSDHeritage's suggestions about computer alerts (Pings) was of some use ?

Congrats on getting the canine detection role !
And Thanks again for giving us the opportunity for a very interesting conversation on PDB.

nicole, if you are going to do AKC/GSDCA stuff, you just have to accept it as it is. On the obedience/tracking side, I think it can be very useful and produce a very well trained/adjusted dog. well, one needs to start with a sound dog.

on the show side, not so much. there are some people who are careful to stay away from the spooks, but there is really no character test in the show and really no way to weed them out. the TC was supposed to help that and you saw it first hand.

Well Nicole.. I can tell you my American line dog didn't flinch and didn't bolt or run during the gun nor Umbrella , and stood between me and the bad guy- at 1 1/2 years old... That did NOT stop him from later becoming a nut when Fireworks happened. Either I screwed him up coddling him, or that fear of loud booms came on later.

Just remember that it's just one day out of a lifetime. The dogs that spooked, bolted or whatever may have never been outside a show ring and yard before. Once a dog spooks- they often 'blow' anal glands and it's a sign for the next dog to worry. This happens all the time in the show ring. Show people don't always treat their dogs like normal pets exposing them to things.
Do more with your dog than just a TC :) Your dog is already on a good track to being well rounded!

I believe the Canadian temperament test is different from the American. It incorporates some of the elements from the IPO BH - the dog has to prove it's traffic safe (jogger, bicycle, car honking its horn, tied to a fence while its owner/handler is absent, people clustered close around it, cheering and applauding as if their favorite team has just scored the game-winning goal.)

My ASL/GSL cross passed this test with flying colours. When she heard the gunshots, she wanted to go behind the blind to see where they were coming from. And when the bad guy came out, shouting and pounding the ground with a stick, she did a momentary startle, then looked up at me for direction. I didn't say anything, and she just stood beside me and watched until he went away.

She was also my hearing ear service dog, and the man judging the test, the president of a local schutzhund club, said she was the perfect dog for the job.

at a GSDCA national a few years ago, the judge was wearing a loose fitting dress. quite a few competitors complained that her "billowing" dress spooked their dogs and should not be allowed.

I've also heard of handlers asking that the PA system be turned off (or down) at a show as it was spooking the dogs.

Some breeders in Canada fought very hard against the temperament test requirement, as they knew their dogs wouldn't pass it.

My only personal observation on adult temperament testing is that when I put Taz (dog in my icon photo) in for his Survey (UK Show equivalent of German Korung) - several years ago - I was told that in the gun test the assessors were looking to get some reaction from the dogs, but that it should be proportionate. It has been raised in posts on here many times; you want the dog to show some interest in the fact that a gun has been fired, and where the sound has come from, not just stand there as though nothing at all has happened.  There should be interest, but not panic. And of course there should be minimal recovery time.  This is nothing like dogs getting antsy because of a flapping skirt or a loud PA.

Many British Show exhibitors, probably still a majority, (of both Germanic and 'English/Alsatian' types) fail to train or work their dogs in IPG, but most of the Germanic 'side' at least do now Survey their stock, indeed it is necessary for entering the British Seiger Event; and so the dogs have to have at least that basic level of instruction - and therefore temperamental suitability - in order to pass that element of a Survey.

When my dog thought the Match Show judge's dress was a toy (like a giant towel) and reacted to it that way, that was my fault. It never occurred to me to introduce and socialize to skirts/dresses/kilts because I don't wear them . . . one of ,many newbie lessons from that day (and posted here almost 6 years ago) LOL

I'm assuming if the dog points the nose and pricks/vibrates the ears in the direction of the shooter, that's OK. But if a dog gets between the handler and gunshot to protect (or horrors, disarms or bites the shooter if right next to him/her before the handler can stop him/her because handler not on his/her toes) would this be a DQ?
 

The shooter isn't going to stand anywhere near the dogs being tested; even a starter pistol is unbearably loud for both dog & handler if fired right by their ear, so the latter situation would not occur. Also this for Survey is supposed to be a temperament test, its not military training ... LOL

I've seen dogs in Surveys both stand still yet look around them for the noise, and move in front of the Handler. Whether they did that to 'protect' the Handler is unlikely perhaps, since many UK dogs are 'handled' for all such events by sweet young things who can RUN with the dog, not the actual owner the dog lives with. I've also seen (heard) many dogs shout some very bad language when the shot is fired - but all part of the speedy recovery process is they stop leaping and barking very quickly, hopefully on Handler command.

We never, as far as I'm aware, trained the Showdogs specifically to deal with skirts/kilts/robes and the like; they met all these at Ringcraft, and during exercise, when I walked them through the streets to get to parks. They were 'non-spooks' insofar as that was enough. The only thing I consciously did was walk them up to anything unusually mobile - eg those ad signs outside shops that spin in the wind, or the tall balloon figures so beloved by some garages etc - and let them have a good sniff to establish no threat.