Bitches not getting pregnant - Page 4

Pedigree Database

 

by Nans gsd on 13 February 2021 - 13:02

Terrible formula, the worst. Yuck

by jillmissal on 13 February 2021 - 13:02

Terrible formula, the worst. Yuck

If I were to choose between taking advice from someone with no formal accredited education in canine nutrition, and a board certified veterinary nutritionist, I would choose the latter, and the latter formulates this and other veterinary recommended foods. 


There's nothing in the ingredients list that is "terrible/the worst" at all. And you really don't have any real backing for saying that aside from your personal beliefs which I guarantee were influenced by boutique dog food companies' marketing. 


by ValK on 13 February 2021 - 13:02

Hundmutter
of course my dogs wasn't exclusively on meat diet. the meal for them was what we have on table + added meat. for dogs in club and border kennels similarly the food was mixture of cooked vegetables, grains and meat.
i didn't know anything about processed dog's food at that time, neither Ari, who never seen that before. unfortunately he didn't explain to me why he don't like it. on other hands - i didn't insist him to eat the stuff which he don't like. never thought it's a big deal to share my food with my dog.

you should understand - in former eastern bloc dogs food industry was non existent. nevertheless millions of dogs in private and government possession somehow not just survived but prospered in development as well.
even in west, pet's food industry was established only in 20 century. amazing how those dogs in 19th and previous centuries managed to survive, till some saviors got an idea to manufacture for them food in granules :)
obviously i'm not nutritional specialist but back then in club we did have lectures in regards of dog's anatomy, physiology and behavior traits. there was also about diet of dogs vs. wild relatives. as i remember from it, carnivores digestive system unable to digest vegetables in raw form. necessary for them bacteria and ingredients those predators obtaining by consuming contents of the stomach of herbivores and in that way does keep proper balance.
b.t.w. when dogs eats the shit its an indicator of the lost of that balance in digestive system.

Rick
pack of predators do not care about old individuals, who cannot contribute to pack effort to survive and prosper. that's main reason for short lifespan in comparison to predators living under human care.
being weaker and left to care for itself without collective effort to provide food does led to malnutrition and physical decline, followed by death of those animals but not the absence of kibbles from dogs food industry :)

Rik

by Rik on 13 February 2021 - 14:02

every dog food manufacturer has certified nutritionists. their livelihood depends on them certifying their employers product.

wonder how this slipped by all those esteemed certified veterinary nutritionists.

We believe that hundreds, if not thousands, of pets have died or become seriously ill as a result of eating Hill’s foods with toxic levels of Vitamin D,” attorney Nyran Rose Rasche told CBS News".  from 2019 recall.

and here is a very helpful link back at you, for your reading enjoyment.

Science Diet


Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 13 February 2021 - 14:02

As a kid back in Europe, I remember my God father who was a farmer and lived in a village, when I used to go visit, he would feed his dogs a bucket of left overs from the dinner table, mixed in with who knows what...
Those dogs herded and protected livestock all day and night and lived to be 16. A friend in Ireland fed her little working BC pedigree all his life and he died around the same age.
The Malinois was called the poor man's dog because they ate crap and still worked. Bottom line, for me, I dont believe that all kibble is shit and I dont believe that all raw food is THE shit.
Feed what your dog likes to eat daily and what you can afford to buy monthly and live life.

by jillmissal on 13 February 2021 - 18:02

every dog food manufacturer has certified nutritionists. their livelihood depends on them certifying their employers product.

This is not true AT ALL. The six major brands, yes. Many, many other brands, no. 

 

We believe that hundreds, if not thousands, of pets have died or become seriously ill as a result of eating Hill’s foods with toxic levels of Vitamin D,” attorney Nyran Rose Rasche told CBS News".  from 2019 recall.

This is a statement from an attorney trying to get a settlement in his clients' favor; there is no evidence whatsoever that his statement is true. There is plenty of hysteria and opinion over that issue but a paucity of evidence. No animals are verified as having died from the incident. I believe only four were verified as actually ill due to this problem but I'll have to find that source again.  The affected foods were ONLY canned formulas, no kibble was involved. Finally, they do know how it "slipped through;" the mistake was outside of Hills' operation; it was at a manufacturing plant that manufactured an ingredient Hill's used in the food. Hill's caught it through its QC process before most of the food ever hit the shelves. 

Hyperbole and false statements are not helpful in these discussions. 

It's also important to note that such recalls are voluntary and usually done at the manufacturer's request after QC identifies a problem. Many, many, (I'd say all) brands of food have experienced recalls. If they haven't; I'd be suspect of bad QC. Recalls are a GOOD thing because they show the company is paying attention. 

 

Edited to add that several other companies had this very same problem because they purchased ingredients from the same manufacturer, but only Science Diet is treated like a bogeyman; likely because this was an opening for the boutique diet people to attack one of the largest companies out there. 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 14 February 2021 - 03:02

I want to read the Skeptvet & the other link before I respond further.

But I do want to point out one thing not apparently recognised here : a very strong reason animals live longer in captivity (and I am not necessarily saying its wholly preferable ) is that they are protected. They are not just fed, they are fed regularly. Most are fed a mix of raw & commercial foods. Their activity is curtailed and they are no longer exposed to the dangers of the wild. They don't routinely have falls, they don't suffer hypothermia, they don't starve and they have medical treatment if they are sick or wounded. Even if in some collections food and meds are at their most basic. Ergo they do not die as quickly.


by jillmissal on 14 February 2021 - 15:02

a very strong reason animals live longer in captivity (and I am not necessarily saying its wholly preferable ) is that they are protected

That's not what the referenced study was about; it was about whether the captive canids lived longer when fed commercial dog food vs being fed raw meat similar to what they would eat in the wild. They lived longer on commercial dog food than their captive counterparts eating raw meat. 


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 14 February 2021 - 15:02

As a kid back in Europe, I remember my God father who was a farmer and lived in a village, when I used to go visit, he would feed his dogs a bucket of left overs from the dinner table, mixed in with who knows what... Those dogs herded and protected livestock all day and night and lived to be 16. A friend in Ireland fed her little working BC pedigree all his life and he died around the same age. The Malinois was called the poor man's dog because they ate crap and still worked. Bottom line, for me, I dont believe that all kibble is shit and I dont believe that all raw food is THE shit. Feed what your dog likes to eat daily and what you can afford to buy monthly and live life.

I had similar experience with my father's family's farm dogs that I knew when I was a kid. Totally agree with you, H.D.!

Oh, and these dogs got the cooked bones off people's plates, too!  


by jillmissal on 14 February 2021 - 18:02

Anecdotes aren't really useful, TBH. There is always an anecdote to counter every other anecdote under the sun, and they are meaningless. My family fed our dogs Purina Dog Chow from the grocery store their entire lives and they lived to be 16 and 17. Genetics have a lot to do with it but there's no arguing that proper nutrition gives the dog the best possible chance it can have.

One dog might have gotten lucky eating chicken bones but another might get a gastrointestinal puncture and die the first time. The former experience doesn't mean that giving chicken bones is a good idea.





 


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