by apple on 11 June 2020 - 10:06
I heard a disgruntled KNPV member went to a Dutch newspaper and informed them of the harsh training approaches different clubs were using and the newspaper set up hidden cameras and captured video of the harsh training approaches resulting in numerous KNPV clubs being thrown out and creating a problem for the sport. While I'm not a fan of such approaches, they are a big factor in what makes many of the KNPV dogs so good. If they can't tolerate the harsh training they are washed so only the hardest dogs remain to be bred. It will be interesting to see what will come of this in terms of the sport and any potential future effect on the types of dogs that are bred. I suppose people could go on doing things independent of the KNPV making sure they are out of sight of prying eyes. I don't think a lot of people in the states understand that what most here would call severe abuse is what helped the KNPV dogs become what they are.
by Hundmutter on 11 June 2020 - 11:06
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 11 June 2020 - 11:06
by apple on 11 June 2020 - 13:06
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 11 June 2020 - 21:06
You realize that to get that high level of precision required in IPO you can't get that with just cookie cutter training? Just because there is precision, doesn't mean the training isn't harsh, it doesn't mean there aren't ecollars or prong collars involved.
IPO used to be a very hard sport and in many cases it still is a hard sport at the higher levels. If you think that high level competitors won't wash their dogs in a heartbeat, you are very mistaken. Many of the professional handlers don't see their dogs as "pets" either and go through them like underwear until the find the right dog to compete with. The sport is way too expensive to waste your time on a dog that can't make it.
by apple on 12 June 2020 - 06:06
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 12 June 2020 - 10:06
by Hired Dog on 12 June 2020 - 10:06
ANYONE who is willing to do shit like this to an animal for a couple of extra points needs "specialized attention" and proper decorum prevents me from describing exactly what kind.
BE, the word you were looking for is "MOOT", not mute....
by apple on 12 June 2020 - 12:06
I was saying I thought there were two different mindsets between the culture of KNPV training and the culture of highly competitive IGP training and was not referring at all to any mindset that I had.
I don't remember the other example you are referring to but it has been many years since I have seen training of that nature. I am very fortunate to train with a small club of very smart handlers who spend a lot of time laying a positive foundation that takes into consideration what behaviors will be trained well into the future so that the foundation is supportive of being successful in training those behaviors without the need for severe compulsion. We use compulsion but only at the level required which is low because the dogs have learned so well what is being asked of them. My point about KNPV training is that the handlers don't really think that way so they get the dog crazy to bite and then will use whatever it takes to get the little control they need. I have heard of them hitting dogs with shovels, hitting dogs in the head with a small rock attached to a stick, multiple e-collars along the waist and frying the dog, etc. My understanding is that is their way to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak so that only the hardest dogs make the cut. You can't argue with their success but you can argue about their ethics.
by ValK on 12 June 2020 - 13:06
in either case, above mentioned by you, performance by dogs can be different but commercial goal is a main motive, be it sale of LE service dog or providing stud service for fees.
big role in training does play dog's temperament and attitude to handler. for sport purpose and K-9 services with no attack involved, the aggression and dominant nature is not necessary, in fact even not desirable.
and contrary - for purposes, where attack and fight a must, strong aggression and dominant attitude very much desirable quality. thus with such type of dog the conflict, at least in beginning, is not avoidable and there are no way to solve leadership issue between handler and dog in no harsh, forceful way.