british hip and elbow scores - Page 1

Pedigree Database

 

by duke1965 on 26 April 2020 - 11:04

can someone explain how to read and/or compare britisch hips/elbow scores please

8lu3d09

by 8lu3d09 on 26 April 2020 - 12:04

Each hip or elbow is individually scored to give the total score.

The lower the number, the better, so a score of 0/0 = 0 would be compared to the German A1 or OFA Excellent.

A dog can have a left hip score of 5 and the right hip a score of 8, so the actual score will be 13 or German C2 and OFA Mild, as a comparison.

There are normally 3 veterinary bone specialists on the panel that sit down and study the x rays before deciding on the scores.

0 = A1 or OFA Excellent
1-3 = A2 or OFA Good
4-6 = B1 or OFA Fair
7-8 = B2 or OFA Borderline
9-12 = C1 or OFA Mild
13-18 = C2 or OFA Mild
19-30 = D1 or OFA Moderate
30 and above = E1/E2 or OFA severe.

Remember, it is the total of the two scores of the left and right hips or elbows that determine the score.

Hope that makes sense.

bladeedge

by bladeedge on 26 April 2020 - 12:04

The total score between the 2 hips is 106. Devided that means 53 on each side. The lower the score the better the hip. If it was my dog I be happy if the score was 12or below on each hip I would also be looking to see as even as possible like( 4,3) (11,12.) Anything after that before the twentys is OK. Upward of 20 u will see hip problems as the dog get older. Elbows it is ideal to see a 00. I really don't like to see any other number. It is scored between 00 and 3. Obviously 1 is mild elbow problems. And anything after that is will be a bigger problem. Hope this helps

8lu3d09

by 8lu3d09 on 26 April 2020 - 13:04

http://www.gsdbreedcouncil.co.uk/bimp/hips/hips.htm

Gives some info on what the BVA/KC hip scoring entails.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 26 April 2020 - 14:04

Duke there is a chart archived on here in the PDB forums that has been shown several times that actually sets out a comparison between UK/BVA scheme, SV and OFA gradings. I'll see if I can find a ref. link for you.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 26 April 2020 - 14:04

A quick search did not find this chart - but I know it is there ! Pretty sure Daryl posted it at least twice, but at the moment I can't even find him by User Search ! (???). I'll keep looking.


Reason X rays go to the Panel is breeders in UK do not routinely kid themselves they can 'beat the experts' in reading them; I believe the radiographic and osteopathic veterinary scientists use some similar criteria to the SV and OFA, re angles, bone density, joint laxity, shape of articular surfaces, etc but with a different interpretation that allows for the numbered scoring. This also cuts out 'have a go' local Vets who like to think they can 'read' the X rays (and so often get it wrong - not that I'm pointing out the monetary value in discovering hips need surgery ...).


by duke1965 on 26 April 2020 - 15:04

thanks everybody, hund, its not so important, just to get the general picture on the results mentioned on several dogs

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 27 April 2020 - 04:04

Well I found Daryl's old posts after that but there are a lot of them and nothing to give me a clue which contain this chart. If I do find it I'll pm it to you, or post it here, whichever is best at the time. I may even have it as a separate download somewhere. It is useful in being an at-a-glance comparison of the main evaluation schemes; but it ain't 'gospel' and one or two of the ' x score = y grade' points are arguable.

True what Bladeedge says, in the UK we do work to Total20 as the cut-off point, its what our Kennel Club and Breed Council charter recommend, but it also needs to be even, to breed with, say 10:10 or 9:11 max; breeders would see an uneven score (eg L2:R9) as being a warning signal.

Last time I looked, the 'breed mean' (average) has come down to about total 17.

But, if its otherwise a VERY good dog or bitch and all of its ancestry has an excellent HD / ED record, but this particular individual has a less good hip rating, many breeders would take the chance. HD isn't everything, as I'm sure you know; although opinion seems to divide into one camp saying "don't ever breed on stock with anything except perfect (0:0) or near-perfect hips", and the other saying "Hang it, just disregard scoring whenever you want to", I am sure the real progress lies somewhere in the middle, with taking the odd calculated risk, as long as you understand what you are doing. And I say that because of the fact that HD, at least, is such a crap shoot, multi-factorial condition.

TIG

by TIG on 27 April 2020 - 16:04

Not the one your looking for but usefu. This thread actually shows two comparisons , ithe 2nd is the better.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.read?post=601457-hip-and-elbow-scores&p=2

Be careful of more modern comparison charts they do not show the overlap between the categories and esp with OFA and SV there is big overlap with the categories as owners of imports who re-xray can attest  -it can be better or worse than you thought.

For the posters can someone tell me how the ZW system calculates in sibling depth. I know as a dog produces his score is adjusted based on progeny score but I have seen litters born with the ave score of 75 for ex and that can change based on their xrays and their progeny xrays but for an example if they had a sibling xrayed as severe  would that change their score or the original litter score ?

So A1 born with litter score of 75 and as he produces his score drops to 69. Meanwhile A his brother and xrayed to show no h zuglassen with a score of 110 . At that point in time is the original litter score adjusted in any way to reflect  the poor  sibling depth - which we know is an impt factor.

 

Also AB are parents of a litter and at birth the litter has the averaged score of 75. But overtime the dam produces badly and her score rises significantly.  At any point in time is the ave score on litter one changed to reflect the change of the dam's score?

 

 

 


by duke1965 on 28 April 2020 - 02:04

looking into a certain breed and im amazed what they breed with now knowing the scores, also lots of dogs with very different scores like 4-9 or 5-11 etc





 


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