200 % on the mark Helmut Raiser quote - Page 2

Pedigree Database

 

by ValK on 11 February 2020 - 14:02

duke, unfortunately this fake narrative that prey drive is everything, prevailed in mass.
as result today nearly impossible to find dogs, truly suitable for that purpose.

GK1

by GK1 on 11 February 2020 - 14:02

ValK, duke1965 (anyone) show us a GSD demonstrating protection/pursuit/fight without prey drive element. 

 

 

 


GK1

by GK1 on 11 February 2020 - 14:02

Prey drive isn't everything...it is necessary component however for balanced working dog.




GK1

by GK1 on 11 February 2020 - 15:02



100's more likely 1000's of K9 deployments every day around the clock, around the world, searches, apprehensions..and few if any of these dogs are "truly suitable for that purpose?

C'mon now.


by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 15:02

GK1 there is a slight difference between a balanced dog( including preydrive) and a dog working on prey only, there are lots of dogs biting fine on sleeve and suit, but fail on the street, more and more LE agencies are moving away from sport-duals, and want something more

GK1

by GK1 on 11 February 2020 - 15:02

Raiser stated "pronounced" prey drive was a necessary element of fight drive. It was one quote.  From what I can see, Raiser doen't claim prey is everything/extreme prey better etc.. in that manual.  Nor do I suspect he was ignorant of what characteristics make for an effective LE K9.  

 


by ValK on 11 February 2020 - 16:02

GK1
ValK, duke1965 (anyone) show us a GSD demonstrating protection/pursuit/fight without prey drive element.

that's not easy task, to SHOW what you're asking for :)
anyway, for start i would like to ask you counter-questions - seeing the dog, aproaching an object of attack, how you distinguishing... is that dog is after the "prey prize" or dog see that object as his worst nemesis?
seeing the dog, hanging on sleeve, how you distinguishing is that dog in attemp to kill or just excercise play?


by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 16:02

GK1 the magic words are ELEMENT OF, different than prey only, but actually the topic is not about preydrive, but about training methods


by Klossbruhe on 11 February 2020 - 17:02

" is that dog is after the "prey prize" or dog see that object as his worst nemesis?
seeing the dog, hanging on sleeve, how you distinguishing is that dog in attemp to kill or just excercise play?"

A dog that is worried about its worst nemesis as you put it is not in prey drive, he is not in fight drive, he is in defense drive. A dog in defense drive only kills because it is threatened. It's either him or me...On the other hand true prey drive is about killing. Read on...

All this talk about drives, but I do not think some of the posters mean the same thing or even understand the drives. An animal in true prey drive is out to kill its prey, often to eat it. Watch a dog in true prey drive, After getting the bite and the helper slips the sleeve, the dog takes it to ground and shakes it vigorously, in an attempt to kill it, to break its neck. You can see this in dogs killing rabbits, squirrels and other small animals. Prey drive can be shaped and controled and used. Defense drive is much harder to work with for obvious reasons. Junkyard dogs kill in defense drive. They are taught to fear all people except the owner.

The police do not want such a dog, a trained killer, nor in most instances do the military. Fight drive is not about killing the enemy.

Raiser knew what he was talking about. Fight drive is a term bandied around by a lot of people who do not understand what it is. Fight drive is rather like the Holy Ghost. It does not appear often, it is an adjunct of prey drive. It can be seen in a dog that enjoys fighting for fightings sake. Though it enjoys the fight, and though it can be very intense, its goal is not to kill. That is the goal of true prey drive.


charlie319

by charlie319 on 11 February 2020 - 18:02

Duke: a good helper will be able to tell if it's real drive or learned behavior. Learned behaviors tend to,crumble under pressure. They are not innate and under the heat of the moment the dog skips a beat and loses its place in the routine. That's why occasionally you see a IPO3 dog turn tail in c phase.






 


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