200 % on the mark Helmut Raiser quote - Page 1

Pedigree Database

 

by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 08:02

today I read a Hemut Raiser quote

Natural drive behaviour is the motor, training is the braking system

this is so accurate and of importance as today we see many occasions where training is used to build something the dog is naturally lacking, and that is disastrous for the workingbreeds 


charlie319

by charlie319 on 11 February 2020 - 09:02

To bring something out, it must exist. You can guide/teach a dog to access or harness drive, but if it's not there... No amount of training will bring it out.


by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 09:02

unfortunately charlie, modern training can make a dog look to have preydrive and posession, where it geneticly has none, they can make a dog look civil when its not, and guarding a person where its actually waiting for the cooky to fall 


by apple on 11 February 2020 - 09:02

If you have to work to bring out drive, it is not the right dog.

emoryg

by emoryg on 11 February 2020 - 10:02

I might add, (as if anyone remembers what they are) instinctive actions. They’re the steering wheel and ultimately control what direction the dog can go.

GK1

by GK1 on 11 February 2020 - 11:02

In all dogs which I found pronounced fighting drive, I also found pronounced prey drive.  I believe that is a very important part of the fighting drive.  Making prey is a passionate instinctive act which doesn’t threaten the dog’s very existence and consequently does not stress the dog in a way which could trigger avoidance behavior.  Der Schutzhund (Armin Winkler translation) pp. 18-19.


by Klossbruhe on 11 February 2020 - 12:02

Most GSDs have prey drive in varying degrees and I would agree with the above posters. But there is a difference between training a dog for active police or militarty duty etc and a dog for schutzhund IGP sport.

Dogs with weak prey drive are obviously poor candidates for such work. However, for the average GSD owner who wishes to take part in IGP as a hobby, then we have a different situation. No dog with a weak prey drive is going to suddenly get a strong prey drive, but with proper training can pass today's easier watered down BH and IGP1 and allow the club member to enjoy at least some pleasure in the sport. In my 30 years of training, I have only seen a very few GSDs, mostly from American lines, with quote unquote no prey drive...

I have seen many dogs that come to the a club with what seems like moderate prey drive but proper acclimatization will bring out their prey drive to its full extent which can often be quite impressive.

As for dogs with very extreme prey drive out of the box, dogs that will bite tree trunks and leaves moving on the ground, do they make good police dogs...

by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 12:02

as for preydrive and posession,and lack thereof, I see lots of dogs trained either with clicker or Ecollar,

especially with Ecollar training dogs can make belief they have extreme prey/posession, where actually its avoidence behavior, as they know with item retrieved and strongly held they are "safe "

I knew of many videos showing this training, but now these are hard to find, dog on table tied up, nowhere to go, and gets nuked any time he lets go of the item, as soon as he understands he will grab the item and "looks " very posessive of it, where actually he knows, if he lets go, the power goes on again


by ValK on 11 February 2020 - 12:02

GK1
total bull shit with its common vindication.
fight is not only availability of trigger as motivator for attack.
for a successful fight a way more important the mindset of dog, absolute commitment to main goal - to fully submit and if not, to kill opponent
irregardless of harm/injuries which could be inflicted in response, during that fight.
none of that apply to raw prey triggered motivation.
your quote only demonstrate that this person came to his conclusion from the harmless sport usage in imitation of fight.


by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 13:02

Valk, a lot of people assume that if something is written in a book, its true, where in fact, books are no more than someones opinion on paper





 


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