Breeding Plans - Page 1

Pedigree Database

 

by xPyrotechnic on 10 February 2020 - 21:02

How far does a person have to plan ahead when breeding a bloodline with specific traits, as an experiment to try it out i put together 7 studs and 7 females one of the breeding that i chose was:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2769729&mother=2599116

I wrote for this in this journal that i have, that i predict the pups will have big bones, thick muzzles and a decent sized head and will have civil aggression that is not over the top and a good structure being medium sized to large, i aimed to produce police dogs in this breeding

But they lacked head size that i am looking for so the progeny of that breeding will be bred to another breeding that i chose:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2819657&mother=2742397

In this breeding i predicted that the dosg will be hard dogs perfect for the police but will not have the structure i am looking for which is Ezzy Adnaf or Aida Vlevo od Vlcku or even Hero Ja Na Ka which are the other dogs i will be using in this imaginary breeding. They will produce a better head than the breeding above, i have gone upto 5 generations.

So what i am essentially asking is am i doing this right and are my predictions correct i dont really care much about the colour of the dogs so i ignored that


by apple on 11 February 2020 - 07:02

Police departments looking for prospects don't give a rat's ass about bone, muzzle size, head size, or structure. They are looking for health, drive, and nerves.  Some of the ugliest police dogs are the best.


by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 08:02

LOL Apple, many USA vendors want pretty dogs, and if ugly, they must be much better working if purchased over the good looking ones, but generally speaking I agree with that statement

emoryg

by emoryg on 11 February 2020 - 11:02

In the majority of the specific traits you identified, you can begin increasing those expressions almost immediately. Most physical attributes are easy to identify and isolate. Not sure about what civil aggression means to you, but from my own experience with police dogs, the dog’s I have preference for mainly come from females who are sharp and display pronounced bite reflexes as puppies. I would start with her. Color may not be of importance, but keep an ‘eye’ on pigment. Most breeders who have been around working dogs identify with keeping and enhancing pigment in their lines.


by ValK on 11 February 2020 - 12:02

from first link, on paternal side none of dogs can give you structure, you're looking for.
on maternal side there was some promising dogs, namely Panter, Piko, Darka... but their mating partners wasn't ones, to achieve desirable structural type and that can be seen in their offspring.
on second link also nothing promising at all.


by xPyrotechnic on 11 February 2020 - 15:02

thanks for the feedbacks, this breeding wasnt supposed to produce size yet, this was meant to be my foundation of the temperments that i want the ones that would give the strcuture i was looking for is http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2750113&mother=2374865 instead of Hasan i would be using Hero i cant select him for some reason and that litter would be bred to
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2819500&mother=2809513

i am focusing more on the females than the males as i have laernt that the motherline is more important than the male line

by ValK on 11 February 2020 - 16:02

different people can perceive dog's traits differently, thus do not expect clear and uniform answer even from those, who's familiar with this or that dog.
as for reaching your goal through two separate approaches (temperament with following structural development), well, i'm not practicing breeder but don't think it's will work.
you need to look at something, which maybe not yet perfect, but already has both qualities in single package and on such foundation you can develop desirable result through strict selection for mating.
on another hand i don't think you could achieve this without having huge breeding facility or as an alternative - cooperation with others likeminded breeders.

by duke1965 on 11 February 2020 - 17:02

interesting approach Valk, so you know some dogs in the fourth generation,you are no breeder, and base your outcome on that,

I personally know 3 of the four parents mentioned and many of the second generation dogs, 

xpyro, if you want to breed and produce certain qualities, make sure the females have those qualities to begin with, ideally both of her parents do too, there is your foundation to begin with, 

after that, select the male that can bring what you want to keep from your females, and more important, a male that can bring what you want to improve in the females

forget what is in 6th and 7th generation, as that is not going to show anything in the welping box

Perseus , male in first combination, is a dog I worked myself, nice build,, nice family and sportdog, but no civil,  no dominance, but bred to the right females can produce nice

Xido, the male in the second combination, has size, bone and muzzle, and brings serious civil and dominance both from sire Tom, as motherline mambo, but also depends, like every other male on the females he will breed


by ValK on 11 February 2020 - 19:02

duke
yeap, i'm not breeder and do not know those dogs. only expressed my opinion based on visual appearance of dogs and what can be expected to see in offspring. mentioned 3 dogs looks very decent and with correct mating should produce strong, sturdy built descendants, which clearly hadn't happened in combinations, they was used in factual breeding.
Panter x Axa gave Kery, who is lacking in the size and bone mass, available in Panter. the next mating Kery x Manka gave Jokas, who is even more smaller and lighter. in Ezzy (fourth generation) nothing left from Panter at all. she is a typical for today lightweight type of bitch.
same trend with two other dogs, Piko and Darka - wasted potential for development of nice, sturdy type of dogs.
don't know what motive was behind all this but obviously not dog's body constitution.


by duke1965 on 12 February 2020 - 01:02

panter was not a big substance heavy boned dog himself, but a real good dog, in fact would say the P litter was best litter out of jaguar, who generally produced nice looking dogs, good substance(with the right females) and good ortho, but not much more, so I would give quality of P litter coming from motherline mostly, 

Now in my experience so far, its hard to reproduce bone, size and skullsize, if the female itself, and her parents are lacking it, so thats why its so easily lost, even when breeding to strong build males

Finally, the male on second litter, Xidi, is mine, so I can say I know him, if you say, "based on visual appearance "nothing to expect there in aspect of bone,skull and sice , you either need glasses or dont know what you are talking about, as he is about 50 kilos, and has extreme stronk bone and skull.

iff he will reproduce that, again, will depend on the females he will breed

Xpyro, again, look at the females first, ind the female that represents the type of dog you are looking for, and start there, the male to breed to is of secondairy importance






 


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