Reckless Aggression , where does it comme from, and which lines are known to pass it down? - Page 9

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by duke1965 on 03 October 2019 - 09:10

emoryg , in KNPV that correction is normally done by a third men, as the owner of dog is too far away to influence anything or correct anything, that is also why the judge stepping in triggered that reaction IMO

by ValK on 03 October 2019 - 16:10

BlackMalinois
No you are very,very wrong some of the best X malinois in KNPV have pitbull mix in their blood, fight,hardness ,hunting  drives stable nerves , litle gameness,agility are some good properties IMO what we miss in a LOT ..GSD today.

then maybe just simple breeding based on excellence of desirable traits will do the job in among of existen breeds, without needs for extravagant "designed" breeding.
b.t.w. strength and physical size of GS dogs, making them dangerous in fight against strong adult men, wasn't the last quality among others, to choose and use this breed during almost the century as a prefered protection dogs.

 

duke
absolutely not interesting in what the reason/excuse for dog to act as he did. bottom line is - that dog did abandon the task, was sent to perform and showed frightened behavior. everything else just subjective speculations and guesses.

by duke1965 on 03 October 2019 - 16:10

Valk, good dogs can be destroyed in training and bad dogs can shine with good training

if we cannot recognise and/or analyse behaviour etc we might as well stop all together

by Hired Dog on 03 October 2019 - 17:10

So, Valk, why can we/should we not believe what Duke says as fact and look at yours as speculation?
Why are we to ignore the posts by Emory who gave a perfect explanation of the behavior when he actually speaks the truth from experience?
I know, you have your opinion and others have theirs, but, at some point, there is a fundamental reality that everyone must grasp and accept, if yours is so different then everyone else's, why keep arguing since there will be no end to this?

by apple on 03 October 2019 - 18:10

Valk,

Breeding for desirable traits is what will improve the breed, but unfortunately, even in the working lines, too much commerial/$ influence leads to poor breeding choices.  The Dutch breeders who breed non FCI Mal X's are motivated to produce the best dogs much more so than producing profits.  Think about a Dutch breeder who outcrosses to a pitbull to bring in some new genetics and traits.  You know that pitbull doesn't have any high level "working" titles, high conformation ratings, etc.  They simply chose a pitbull that had very strong desirable traits and don't care what the offspring look like as long as the desirable genes are passed on and improve working ability.  There are small pockets of breeders of GSDs that care strictly about health and working ability, but the majority are motivated by maximizing profit and/or don't know what a good dog is.  You can see where so many of the Czech breeders have sold out to the sport lines.  The same is happening with some of the Dutch Mal X's breeders even, as they are selecting more for social, sporty dogs rather than for aggression, or more of the old style dogs.  For me, in the working GSD, the ideal is to select for dogs with good prey drive, strong defensive aggression, good active aggression and very good nerves.  IGP is the sport of the GSD and it has become a business and not a tool to select good dogs for breeding.  I also agree that the Mal that let go, while having some desirable traits, should not have let go of the bite, but it is hard to know if the behavior was from harsh training or a confidence issue.

emoryg

by emoryg on 03 October 2019 - 19:10

Here is an incident, where looking back I believe the dog released upon my approach.  Jumping from the ledge may also be deemed reckless behavior.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpezyddefpjowtz/Bojar%2042.pdf?dl=0

by Blksableworkingdogs on 03 October 2019 - 23:10

Oh my gosh guy..... are you kidding me ???
I only HOPE for such "recklessness" aggression !!!!
I will use a way over used saying... to each his own I guess.
Its my opinion that type extreme prey drive and hard nerves can almost,,, and I said "almost always be used and channeled for good if in the hands of the right owner handler, definitely not for sport but for more real life practical military or police work... or personal protection
But I agree with apple.... I certainly don't think its the typical GSD.... thats putting it mildly
Just my opinion.
emoryg

by emoryg on 04 October 2019 - 03:10

Bojar was a nice dog. Or as it’s been said, glad he didn’t know how to drive and do paperwork. Medium drives if I recall that were well balanced. Extreme self confidence. Low keyed or professional as it's called. Excellent nose and good hunting instincts. I had him on narcotics, but after 9/11 my department had me train him on explosives to meet the increasing calls for service. Was a jute junkie on the training field and super safe on a sleeve or bite jacket. Loved the confrontation and challenge where he could impose his will on the suspect. Even if he didn’t bite, he put on a very impressive show, especially if the suspect was verbally combative or if there was more than one suspect.

I remember the first time he encountered three suspects on the same track. You would have thought it was his birthday. They were all three compliant so there was no bite, but man what a display of power. He had this incredible lion’s roar that was probably one of the best I heard. Scared the mess out of two of them. One screamed and the other wet his pants. The third looked about dead and I doubt he even knew we were there. They were all Asian, but that one looked like papa smurf. He had been in a knife fight and was carved up like a turkey. He was on his side and his intestines were hanging out. Had these big nasty gashes everywhere. Im pretty sure he survived, but they were doing CPR on the other guy in the back of a med unit at the apartments complex where we started the track. Don’t think he made it. We ended up finding them in a subdivision, behind a house. Have no idea how the one guy made it that far holding his intestines in. We were in the woods a good bit if I recall. While waiting for a med unit, my backup officer knocks on this old lady's door and asked for something so he could try to stop the bleeding. She comes out with a box of bandaids. It was a serious call but that gave us a good laugh afterwards.

He refused to play the bite game with women. Not sure why. Had these big, beautiful paws you would expect from a working dog. He could spread them like a cat. Excellent for stuff like mud, sand, swimming or anywhere traction was an issue. He even had an advantage on the slippery floors like in the schools and shopping centers. You could see them open up when he needed them. Funny how you remember the little things.


by duke1965 on 04 October 2019 - 06:10

IMO, the reason why we dont see this "recklesness" in many GSD, is that most GSD dont get in that high state of drive that they stop noticing everything else arount them, because that is what this mainly is , IMO, I have seen several of these dogs fal apart when totally out  of drive

by duke1965 on 04 October 2019 - 06:10

IMO, the reason why we dont see this "recklesness" in many GSD, is that most GSD dont get in that high state of drive that they stop noticing everything else arount them, because that is what this mainly is , IMO, I have seen several of these dogs fal apart when totally out  of drive


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