Reckless Aggression , where does it comme from, and which lines are known to pass it down? - Page 3

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by emoryg on 27 September 2019 - 11:09

Here is a more detailed explanation on rage and idiopathic aggression. Scroll down to page 240.

http://www.coburghillsbmd.com/resources_for_puppies/positive%20perspectives%240.pdf

by K9L1 on 27 September 2019 - 13:09

There are some dogs especially males , the way how they carry themselves ( movement, boy and face) that elicit fear in more than the average person. The attitude of the dog is “ I own this place “ . The dog seem to be aware of the fear in the person but he does not necessarily act aggressively but seem to enjoy keeping things this way. Is this a remnant of herding instinct?

in other words the dog is able to exert and maintain control  by not having to more than eliciting fear in others. Anyone seen this behavior before? I have seen it in a male that came out of strong herding lines.

by apple on 27 September 2019 - 13:09

It sounds like you are describing dominance with a dog using his body language to display his status and not needing to show aggression because he "knows" where he ranks. But I wouldn't expect dominance out of the former herding lines, because a good herding GSD has a strong desire to work with and for the sheepherder. How long ago did you see this dog, because I don't think there have been any strong herding lines for quite a while.

by duke1965 on 27 September 2019 - 13:09

K9L1 you are giving human traits to a dog, LOL biggest problem in human/dog relationships start that way

by K9L1 on 27 September 2019 - 14:09

Apple that was in late 70’s .
Duke just using language to explain what I perceived. The dog appears to have figured out that it can maintain its position by not having to be actually aggressive . But there is a certainty that if s person should make the wrong move in the dog’s presence , the dog will definitely act aggressively.

by apple on 27 September 2019 - 14:09

It was in the 1970's that the SV started encouraging the shepherds, who mainly were poor, to breed to the German show lines and they were seduced by the higher prices they could get for puppies simply because they had a show line dog in their pedigree. Consequently, the herding lines began to erode around that time and are lost IMO. As I said, if what you saw was a dog from strong herding lines, you probably were not seeing dominance. The shepherd's main dog was called the Hauphund and it was the type of dog that exuded a joy of working, independence, courage and spirit. Maybe that is what you were seeing.
emoryg

by emoryg on 27 September 2019 - 14:09

You mention exert and maintain control, both of which are components of a dominate dog’s behavior. This is a valuable trait for police dogs tasked with criminal apprehension. Maybe not so great for personal protection.

Exploiting the herding instinct will make it more noticeable.

Reckless behaviors can be a smart dog making a dumb mistake. Or a dumb dog just making another mistake. Its hard to define since you can't pinpoint what was going through the dog's mind when the behavior was displayed.

by ValK on 27 September 2019 - 15:09

K9L1
whats the difference Valk?

seems different people have different perceptions of recklessness.
obstacles on dog's way to target and dog's ability to pass them, more related to dog's selfconfidence. the dog could be not the bravest fighter but excelent tracker and nothing can stop that dog in task to find target. could that dog be classified as reckless?


rough, impulsive, reactive, etc. on constant base dog in interacting with humans, other animals or even things, perhaps can fall under reckless classification but i see it more like weak, unstable temperament.


calm, mainly indiferent dog, triged by certain circumstance instantly can switch into mode of furious fighter but not necesarily be classified as a reckless fighter.


i apply classification "reckless dog" on base of dog's state of mind in certain critical circumstances. not sure if i will be able to clearly explain but i will try.
you see, 99.99% even most brave dogs, when facing threat from superior opponent, do have second thought, doubt. in the short period between appearance of threat and the moment of actual physical contact, there are assessment, evaluation of odds for surviving.
dogs, who in 00.01% don't do that. they just go in fight irregardless of size, fury and quantity of opponents. this type truly very rare. we used to call that type of dog "hussar".

 

as for "dog, inflicting the fear", it's has place to be and related to dominant nature of dog. but this is not like that dog doing this intentionally. it's rather an inintentional visual manifestation of dog's extraordinary selfconfidence and selfsuficiency.
people, particularly ones who's used to two forms of dog's attitude - unfriendly aggressive or friendly affection but not experienced in dealing with such type, do not know what expect from such dog and instinctively do feel fear. there aren't dog's guilt in such human's perception.


by K9L1 on 27 September 2019 - 15:09

Duke
About humanizing dogs.
Even young babies have already figured out they can control the mother’s response by crying . Why is it difficult to agree that an adult dog can figure out that he can maintain control by minimum effort . After all the human brain is built on a template of the reptilian and mammalian brains.
GK1

by GK1 on 27 September 2019 - 15:09

(Valk)…you see, 99.99% even most brave dogs, when facing threat from superior opponent, do have second thought, doubt. in the short period between appearance of threat and the moment of actual physical contact, there are assessment, evaluation of odds for surviving. dogs, who in 00.01% don't do that. they just go in fight irregardless of size, fury and quantity of opponents. this type truly very rare. we used to call that type of dog "hussar".

https://www.rbth.com/history/327840-why-were-hussars-considered-imperial

At the expense of humanizing canine drives for the sake of discussion, are “hussar dogs” mostly born or made? Or both to some degree? Seems high prey/hunt traits (somehow displayed in so-called recklessness) could be sustained in a given line with fair consistency.  But theoretically would “hussar drive” be more elusive since it is an unnatural, counter-productive to survival trait?


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