Reckless Aggression , where does it comme from, and which lines are known to pass it down? - Page 12

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by ValK on 04 October 2019 - 17:10

Hired Dog
Valk, why can we/should we not believe what Duke says as fact and look at yours as speculation?
Why are we to ignore the posts by Emory

where did i told to doubt anything duke or emoryg said?
albeit sometimes my view might differ in nuances from their, but i think we are pretty much inline by the overall perception. if there are disaccord that's mainly due to personal experience from different past backgrounds.
i'm trully sorry for mine redneck style in approach but can't help.

apple
Think about a Dutch breeder who outcrosses to a pitbull to bring in some new genetics and traits...
...They simply chose a pitbull that had very strong desirable traits and don't care what the offspring look like as long as the desirable genes are passed on and improve working ability.

i really can't see what can bring in the pitbull or for that matter any other breed, what cannot be found in original breed of dog being bred decently for particular purpose.
it's still for me just an attempt to be extravagant, be unique with unusually looking dog.

apple
The other thing that stood out was that the dog did fine, but he didn't seem to be big and strong enough to overpower the bad guy.

same feeling here in regard of GSDs and i mentioned few pages back - strength and size of GSD wasn't the last thing in preference to use this breed for protection. i don't like today's trend to shrink GS dogs into physical appearance of malis - small, dry, skinny with narrow body and head and weak jaws.

duke
Valk, good dogs can be destroyed in training and bad dogs can shine with good training
if we cannot recognize and/or analyse behavior etc we might as well stop all together

no objection here. but isn't the training itself should also be at same time the test to see dog's abilities?
including level of pain tolerance, capacity to recover from stressful punishment and sufficient intelligence to grasp right from wrong from first experience, without needs for repeated punishment.

by Hired Dog on 04 October 2019 - 17:10

Valk, your post here argued with Duke's observation and Emory's experience, hence my post and mention of those names to you.
Next, in what way do you test a dog's pain tolerance level or the level of punishment a dog can absorb?
What dogs do you know that learn a behavior the very first time without the need for repetition?
Lastly, I dont know what "redneck" style is, maybe you can tell me.

by apple on 04 October 2019 - 18:10

Valk,
I think a unique traits a quality pitbull can bring to another breed is gameness or the refusal to give up, not just in fighting, but in any challenge. A problem might be that those dogs tend to come from lines bred to fight other dogs and the human aggression has been selected away from and dog aggression has been selected for.
Black Malinois,
Thanks for the history lesson. It is apparent than different sports contribute to shaping different lines of a bred, as well as market demands.

by duke1965 on 04 October 2019 - 18:10

Valk, if a dog in training, for two years long,is for example, hit with an electric cattle prod by the third man stepping in, even the strongest dog will show that reaction, as conditioned behaviour

 

by ValK on 04 October 2019 - 19:10

duke
that's most idiotic way to train the dog. particularly in protection.
smh

by ValK on 04 October 2019 - 19:10

Hired Dog
you don't train the dog by punishment. punishment is just a last resort of correction and if dog unable to link it to wrong doing and come to conclusion, then most likely that dog is brainless idiot and not worth the effort to continue.

by duke1965 on 04 October 2019 - 19:10

Valk, it is not about if its idiotic or not, its simple pavlov reaction, its about understanding why dog acts that way, not if you agree with training methods

by Hired Dog on 04 October 2019 - 21:10

Valk,
"no objection here. but isn't the training itself should also be at same time the test to see dog's abilities?
including level of pain tolerance, capacity to recover from stressful punishment and sufficient intelligence to grasp right from wrong from first experience, without needs for repeated punishment."

This is your post here, so, when I asked about how you discover these things, how you discover a dog's pain tolerance and capacity to recover from stressful punishment, I got this..
"you don't train the dog by punishment. punishment is just a last resort of correction and if dog unable to link it to wrong doing and come to conclusion, then most likely that dog is brainless idiot and not worth the effort to continue."

Now, ALL dogs will require a degree of correction the severity of which depends upon the genetic temperament of the dog, its size and the type of infraction committed by the dog.
Next, after you have taught the dog what behaviors you require by rewarding when the dog performs them, you start training, which will now require that the dog performs said behaviors on demand. If it does not and you are certain the dog knows what you are telling it to do, you correct it, period.

Corrections will also be needed during the proofing phase of training when you want the dog to perform under distractions that the dog will experience during daily life.
Corrections are NOT a last resort, they are an integral part of training dogs, especially ones that your life may very well depend on one day.
It is a learning process that takes time as well as proper rewards and corrections which is why I know of no one who simply picked up a "green" dog and went to work with it the next day.
Some dogs are easier to train then others, yes, but ALL require training in order to learn and understand what is expected of them when the command is given.
BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 05 October 2019 - 18:10

 


@ apple that police  dog was stabbed 8 times with a knife feel sorry for the dog  a real warrior don,t give up   fight to  the end.
 

 

emoryg

by emoryg on 06 October 2019 - 02:10

The dog showed good heart, too bad the two legged officers didn’t have the same. But the heart is only part of the equation. He should have enough mass to generate the power needed to dominate the average suspect into submission. He may just be expected to locate and/or stop flight so other officers can assist. Or he may be young and has not developed enough bite pressure.

I have no idea what the use of force policy is where that video was shot, but I have a feeling I would be fired after the first fight I got in. I also have no idea why the handler didn’t discharge his weapon (taser or firearm...wasnt sure what he was carrying). Not in defense of his dog, but to protect himself and fellow officers. Police officers are taught about the short reactionary gap for persons armed with edged weapons and this guy was well within the lethal zone. One stab to the major arteries, heart, liver, etc could be lights out. It would have sounded like a busy day at the firing range if that happened to my crew. The handler drew down and looked like he extended and was ready to take care of business. It appeared everyone was armed, but seemed too busy looking for the exit. Geesh. You’re supposed to go to work with your crews knowing they have your back. I did see one female officer bring her boot and closed hand strike to the fight. She may have potential. Pretty sure I would be fired.


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