Reckless Aggression , where does it comme from, and which lines are known to pass it down? - Page 10

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BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 04 October 2019 - 07:10

Now we go to the real world arrest in the Netherlands this week suspect in Mosque

 

https://vimeo.com/364241693 

 

I don,t have the trust the   scared dog from that  other video  have skills and  courage to do this and finish this job.

( Sorry for  our police officers but  that K9 have  better skills)

UPDATE - de politie Rotterdam leest mee en heeft context gemaild:

"Situatie: gevaarlijk, onberekenbaar persoon heeft zich verschanst in Moskee (Rotterdam) en is in staat om iemand of personen iets vreselijks aan te doen. In nauw overleg met Moskee bestuur de Moskee met diensthond betreden en verwarde man kunnen overmeesteren. Die zit nog steeds vast."

 

by duke1965 on 04 October 2019 - 09:10

but,but,but,,,, that dog is certified and on the championships, how can it not be a good dogWhat Smile


BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 04 October 2019 - 09:10


Duke you know also not every point  dog on that Championships will make it in the real world........ no hard feelings, and yes the quality most of them is very good.

 

 

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 04 October 2019 - 09:10

Running across water, mud, dodging tables and chairs being thrown for a bite is not being reckless. It comes from desire and the accompanying need to fulfill it. Varies

I am only on page 2 so I don t know what others opinions on this reckless behavior is, but I have been under the I pressing that that is exactly the behavior that is expected for police k9 and special forces k9s.
I mean if you send your dog out to apprehend a fleeing suspect, is it proper for a dog in pursuit that encounters a mud hole or any waterm obstacle to stop and look for a better way around or to blast thru like it don t exist, and if they fleeing any type of habituated area, when suspect starts flipping tables and chairs and tossing them toward dog, who has been taught to apprehend that person, is the dog supposed to give up his pursuit because he fears he being reckless, ? I think you would be reading here what a crapper of a dog it was.
My dogs will take you out if you are standing in their way of retrieving a ball. One dog might go around you, three or four together after same ball, your going down if your out in the middle of the fairway. If the ball goes overy a fence, there are a couple are going right behind the ball over the fence, while the others have already determined which route is fastest way around the fence to get that ball, and if there is mud or obstacles, they going thru them.
But, on the call back, everyone wI'll instantly retreat and come in, the one who got the ball don t necessarily want to give up his prize, but as soon as they see the next one ready to launch, they can t give the first one up fast enough.
There at times is competitive aggression toward each other if they run into each other while in their pursuit of that prize, a few rumbles and grumbles to each other, you know the typica, get the f" out of my was jackass, but no true aggression toward the others.
I just take that as normal characteristics of the German Shepherd. They all want to be the one to claim they won (and I do make sure before we done everyone gets their turn in the winner seat),

   And as far as dogs projecting themselves as a force to be reckoned with, intimidating other dogs and people is not as novel as some state. 

    When you have several dogs that live together in one common area, you see it all the time. One dog tries to run the show steps out into the crowd and he (or she)  comes out puffed up and out with that stiff walk to them , like look here, Don t even think of messing with me, some of them can give the look that every dog moves out the way as they coming thru. My Bullinger boy just that dog too, no matter where he going, he strutting his stuff with that superiority complex, and not another dog dare question it, ever. ( even all that , is an understatement in reference to him).

    And my son has a pitbull that uses them tactics of fear and dominance over dogs and people as well. (And he's damn good at it, it works on me everytime), this is one dog I have fear of. And I also believe if you question him on it, he will show you what he means. Won t act that way when my son is around butvanytime I have had to care for him, as long as your doing what he wants, he s a great dog, but as soon as you try to take control of him, that corky crap comes out, he will stiffen up, puff up and flat out refuse whatever you trying to get him to do, he walks toward me all stiff like , a little hackle up, I try my dam destination to not let him know he scares the crap out of me, but he knows it. If I get in front of him and try to control his come with me mode, he ll stand there not move and if you pull him, he ll cock his head so he can slip the collar,  many times I have told him, ya know what, then just stay the hell outside, who cares! Lol but he definitely uses the intimidation thing on me and anyone else who has came to take him out. And he's not one of them little pit Bulls either, he has a massive neck that makes getting a collar tight near impossible without his being able to control the situation. I do not like the dog at all.

    To his error, he tried that puffing up crap on my dogs, it didn t work, he ended up at emergency vet with numerous stitches and drainage tubes.

    It s the same concept birds use in the wild, snakes what have you, they pump themselves up to appear bigger and try to determine confrontation, it's self preservation to many. You got men do it too.

by apple on 04 October 2019 - 11:10

Black Malinois,
Your comments about the police officers is what stood out to me. They were very ineffective at neutralizing the bad guy. The other thing that stood out was that the dog did fine, but he didn't seem to be big and strong enough to overpower the bad guy. I have seen some nice non FCI Mal X's from KNPV lines and the males are only about 55 pounds. My understanding is that the non FCI KNPV Mal X's tend to be on the large side because in the past, they have outcrossed some lines to Great Danes and Rottweilers for size. But a 55 pound dog can easily be killed by a muscle head on drugs. My GSD is over 100 pounds and when we do protection obedience and he is not on a tie out, I use two people to handle the long line while I handle the short leash and they have trouble handling him when he goes into drive with the pass auf command. The one thing about very high prey dogs and nerves is that their drive can be so intense it will mask nerve/confidence problems. This can be a benefit and a risk, depending on the situation.
emoryg

by emoryg on 04 October 2019 - 11:10

The video has very different tactics than what I am accustomed too. 

This is a link to a yearly inservice training module that was delivered to the officers I worked with.  You can scroll down through the lesson and read the section on contact and cover.  There is considerable emphasis on how the backup officers should avoid getting around the dog.  One of the reasons I wrote out the lesson plan was to minimize officer involved bites. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tr0m15pbtyh2qd/PDT%20EEG.pdf?dl=0


BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 04 October 2019 - 14:10

 


@ Apple the suspect can under unfluence from drugs, medicins you never know
than  even a 120 pound K9 will have problems,
The K9 did everything what can be expected , suspect had also a
knife

Yes high drives can mask some nerves problems or even courage but in training
this must be clear the quality from a K9 , this dogs are trained in 100,s diifferent scenarios I don,t think they will send a crap dog only by drives K9,s must have courage and no fear here for sure.

Here in Holland cops get more and more rules and less authority to do their job
well,using a weapon are too much reguliations judges here protect the criminals more than our own cops they can be fired or suspended  easy . The left politici destroy our country with their idiot politci , all the money goes to the environment and emigrants a hudge problem  here today. Too litle money for good quality cops politicy don,t care about  here.

@ Emoryg thank you for the link very interesting US will for sure different
procedures and tactics and I believe they have more freedom than here
to do their job.

 

GK1

by GK1 on 04 October 2019 - 14:10

Apple I think you may be overstating the frequency of KNPV cross breeding for specific characteristics such as size. The alleged 80-90 lb KNPV dogs may have been selectively bred to be larger, but are often more like dogs in the 70 lb range, just fattened up.

Watching some of these LE videos and reading the commentary…I give pause and thanks to God for having experienced at least a portion of my past life working the street - before cell phone live streaming, you tube etc.  It was a grand (sometimes reckless) time, even for our K9 brothers.

by Hired Dog on 04 October 2019 - 14:10

Now my question is, why was a dog put on a suspect with a knife? There is a time to use a dog and a time to leave it in the car and take out an AR-15.

by duke1965 on 04 October 2019 - 14:10

Hired dog, I didnot like the way those cops handled the sitution also,

and you see if the dog stays on the bite, he is an easy victim for a criminal with a knife



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