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by Espiritus on 24 September 2019 - 15:09

I need help figuring out the long string of acronyms. I was active in the early 80s when we had Schutzhund, IPO, and Ring; I'm wanting to return, and now there is an alphabet soup of classes:
BH-AD-FH-IGP-Sto.Pr-FPr-UPr-SPr
What?
I'm planning on going to observe and have zero idea of what I'm observing. Can someone help?

by apple on 24 September 2019 - 15:09

Can you provide a link where you saw Sto.Pr-FPr-UPr-SPr?  These look like titles/ratings unique to the GSD Club of America.

emoryg

by emoryg on 24 September 2019 - 16:09

This should cover most FCI titles.

http://www.fci.be/medias/UTI-REG-IGP-en-10245.pdf

by apple on 24 September 2019 - 16:09

So those are FCI/IGP terms. That document seems totally anal. It looks like FPr is a tracking examination and has three levels. UPr is an obedience exam and has three levels. SPr is a protection exam and has three levels. I assume it is the IGP version of phases A, B, and C and a I, II, and III schutzhund title. There was no Sto.Pr, but there was an St.Pr which referred to the size of the tracking field and where the articles where laid out and it also had three phases or examinations.

emoryg

by emoryg on 24 September 2019 - 16:09

Apple, Ditto. I also looked at the trial sheets and just had to scratch my head.

by Centurian on 25 September 2019 - 16:09

Most of the dog world , the GS World has become polluted and perverted. The hyposcrisy is just astounding ..

Titles : they in reality, mean very little. The Shows : they in reality mean very little. Pedigress : they in reality mean very little. So someone tell me : a GS with a pedigree .. how much does that tell me about that dog ? A GS with a Show rating , what does that tell me about a dog ? A GS with a Title , what does that tell me about a that dog ? All of these are for people's ego and for the sake of business /money . The GS educated person knows that compared to what those did mean comoared today , the whole spiel is a sham and a farce.

Titles / Sch , nothing like it once was ...Showing , nothing like it once was . And that is without a long long winded exaplantion. Anyone that is half way educated about GS knows that much of all of this is na blatant farce. I have had some of the best pedigreed GS in the world . I have had GS that worked the best , and showed the best .

Not once , not once , did ever one of my GS dogs ask me about their title , their pedigree or their show rating .. Nor did many people in life  either because what truly matters is the dog itself , what it make up or isn't , What it can do or cannot do . And all that the dog is and needs to be known about the dog as well as all that the dog can do , is limmited by written descriptions .

mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 25 September 2019 - 17:09

Centurian, top postThumbs Up

by apple on 25 September 2019 - 18:09

Centurian,
I would say pedigrees, the way the vast majority of people use or understand them, are pretty useless, but if you can find someone like Gustav or others who have reliable first or second hand knowledge of the dogs in a pedigree and how they have produced, you can increase you odds of getting a dog from a breeding that is the type you are looking for. The problem is that such people are like hen's teeth. Show line and working line dogs can have schH/IPO/IGP titles, but they are going to be totally different dogs. A title does not change a dog's genetics or what he produces. Five generations of dogs in a pedigree can have good hips and still produce HD, but I still would look for consistently good hip ratings and try to find out if any of the dogs in the pedigree tended to throw bad hips with different bitches. In the GSD world, the vast majority of titled dogs have schH/IPO/IGP/SVV/ZVV titles, which IMO, are not much of a test of a dog. An untitled dog can be tested by someone who knows what to look for. PSA has introduced American Schutzhund to try to make the sport more difficult and useful as a breed worthiness test, but I think the sport should have been much more redesigned. PSA at least does a good job at testing a dog's nerves, but it is dominated by very high prey drive Mals, whose drive allows them to mask nerve issues and many of the dogs lack aggression. Also, PSA is a bit ridiculous it what it demands from a dog in the higher levels because a strong dog should bite the shit out of someone doing some of the things that go on in a trial, but a major focus is controlled aggression. The problem is that often there is no aggression in the dogs competing to control because their prey drive is so high (I understand prey drive is predatory aggression, but it is not the package of aggression I am referring to.) So in addition to you saying the dog world is perverted and polluted, I would add it is very flawed.

by ValK on 25 September 2019 - 19:09

centurian
at present there no meaningful selection for practical purposes, no weeding out. every single produced pup MUST be sold and after reaching certain age, copulate to something still breathing and moving, if not to provide cash flow then at least to recoup own expenses.
in today's breeding the loses aren't acceptable per se. and yes, titles did become just one of the tools to help in achieving financial goal.

apple
i think it's impossible even for most experienced person to know all dogs. it's simpler if both parents well known. but what about if one proven parent and another with no name? the odds that offspring could be absolute shit or superior dogs are 50/50.
in today's breeding environment the info about ancestors, further back than mother-father, become pretty much useless.

b.t.w. glad to see you do start to doubt necessity of prey in GSDs to be a good GSDs.

by astrovan2487 on 25 September 2019 - 20:09

BH is the basic temperament test which is needed before attempting any of the other titles
AD is an endurance test
FH is an advanced tracking title
IGP is IPO which is Schutzhund
Sto.Pr no idea
FPr tracking test, has 3 levels which is the same as the tracking you would do for IPO 1, 2, or 3
UPr same as above but with obedience only instead of tracking
SPr I'm assuming is misspelled for STPr which is an article area search

Most of those have been around for quite awhile so I'm surprised you haven't heard of them. Maybe a big change has been that you can now title your dog in one phase (tracking, obedience, protection) vs only doing all 3 at once. Just as a sport title not as a breed worthiness test. Hope that answers your question

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