Qvido Vepeden progeny, health concerns ??? - Page 5

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Koots

by Koots on 27 August 2019 - 14:08

Apple - while a focused, exaggerated heel position may not CAUSE a structural problem, it most certainly may lead to ligament/tendon/muscle injuries just as a repetitive motion in humans can lead to the same - think carpal tunnel syndrome.

Also, in dressage, the horse is not required to have the head turned up and sideways as the dogs are in the exaggerated heel. As was already mentioned, a way to help stave off a repetitive soft-tissue injury may be to have the dog heel on BOTH sides of handler while training, so as to 'even out' the use of the musclature.

Don't take me wrong, a focused heel is impressive to watch and people 'in the know' realize how much time/effort it takes to perfect, but it may come at a cost to the dog that only time will reveal, IMO.
 

by ValK on 27 August 2019 - 14:08

never found it to be impressive to watch.
that posture and prancing front is a much unnatural and absolutely unnecessary attribute which adds nothing to evaluation of dog's qualities.

by apple on 27 August 2019 - 15:08

It can very much be an attribute to a police dog. It can allow the handler to move from one position to another where there are citizens yelling and creating disturbances with the dog under control. It can allow a police K9 handler to keep his dog calm and be able to deploy him for a track without becoming agitated by such distractions and interrupting the dog's ability to concentrate on a track. It basically increases options for successful deployments. It is all about controlled aggression in a litigious society. It is not like back in the DDR where the government owned the dogs and everything else.

by ValK on 27 August 2019 - 15:08

apple, how many prancing dogs next to cop have you seen on patrol deployment :)

by apple on 27 August 2019 - 15:08

I am not talking about prancing. I am talking about a focused heel where the handler "owns" the dog's eyes, so to speak. It is not an uncommon philosophy or practice in high level tactical training of police and military dogs. Most police dog heeling is loose leash allowing the dog to look around as long as he stays in position. There are times when allowing the dog to look around is more tactical. If a dog is around people who are yelling and they are not the threat or target, the dog can perceive the yelling as agitation, interfering with control and focusing on the bad guy. Walking a dog between the handler's legs is another tactical approach often used by SWAT team members. This approach allows them to know where the dog is by feel so they don't have to rely on sight or take their focus off the area of responsibility. It also allows the SWAT team member to keep his hands on his weapon and they can shoot and move with their dogs.

by ValK on 27 August 2019 - 16:08

ok. then how many cops have you seen, who "owns" the dog's eyes during the work on street?
also, talking of the SWAT K9 tactic, how do you imagine to own the eyes of that dog between your legs :)

by apple on 27 August 2019 - 16:08

Are you really that dense? I said most police dog heeling is loose leash allowing the dog to look around as long as he stays in position. There are times when that is the most tactical approach. The time a focused heel becomes tactical I also explained. It is used in specific situations. SWAT team members walking their dog between their legs is simply another tactic and has nothing to do with a focused heel. The point is a police dog that is well trained is not simply trained to walk on a loose leash allowed to look around. There are other tactical approaches with the focused heel being one. So it has application outside of sport, but it is not a prancing, head fully tilted up focused heel. The dog stays focused on the handler's eyes.

by Hired Dog on 27 August 2019 - 16:08

I dont want the dog to look me in the eyes during normal heeling, being on my right or left is good enough, however, there are times, like when I need to walk through a crowd of 5K people that I demand a formal heel, the dog looking at me.
As far as SWAT applications, the last thing I would want is a dog between my legs as I am trying to move either fast enough during a dynamic entry or running up a flight of stairs. The best use of a dog during a SWAT deployment is as a detection tool at best and he does not need to be between anyones legs to accomplish that.
I have seen a video of some guy in military gear with his long gun and his dog between his legs and it does look impressive, the dog looking up at him while moving and such, but, not for me and not in my real world.

by ValK on 27 August 2019 - 20:08

here is a video of that exercise.
as far as i got from talk in background it's a scenario of apprehension of armed subject who barricaded himself in building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRLOZI0zmpY

 


Mike D

by Mike D on 28 August 2019 - 20:08

Blacksableworkingdogs posted:

"Hey Duke.... "quite a switch" .....well we will see how these pups turn out, Im buying two males from the same litter, as for as my efforts in getting something from the Eqidius lines, yea I did give up, the man Jan Sudikak who is I believe an honorable gentleman didn't seem inclined to work with me, and allow me to buy a pick from any litters he had or upcoming.... and there is only one person here in the states that "claims" to Have Drago Eqidius" frozen semen and advertise with there web site to produce "LEGENDS"
Well these people are EXTREMELY dishonest, while they take deposits on a regular basis they seldom and I mean very seldom ever produce the promised pup, they take more deposit than pups they can produce,, kind of like people who float checks..... they use there religion and the same ole same ole excuses over and over about being sick and hospital stays, I wouldn't deal with them ever again under any circumstances"

I too have been unable to convince Jan to sell me a puppy. More than that...I can't even get him to return an e-mail. I've sent probably 4-5 e-mails just trying to explain who I am and why I want one of his puppies. No response.

Kind of a bummer.

regarding Van Den Heuvel-
They are the reason I want to stay in the Eqidius lines. I have dealt with Dari and found her to be helpful, honest and dedicated to the breed.

Not at all how you describe them. I would deal with VDH again-and probably will at some point.

Mike

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