by Blksableworkingdogs on 14 August 2019 - 23:08
From what Ive read and have seen by his accomplishments he is an absolutely amazing dog but someone I know keeps telling me that his pups "progeny" have a pattern of having serious gum and teeth issues ?
Im about to buy a pup of his and Im just asking anyone on here knows of this being a legit concern ?
Im believing and "hoping" its the females that he was bred to that cary the genetic issue and not him ?
So if your reading this please DO NOT take what Im asking as a charge against a dog thats accomplished so much !
Any help would be appreciated !
by Sersi73 on 15 August 2019 - 01:08
by Blksableworkingdogs on 15 August 2019 - 02:08
I think your spot on..... I appreciate your input, especially since you actually have not one but two of his sons, Im just trying to be extremely careful because before I actually place my deposit on this pup, because Im not the type to ever get rid of one regardless what issues they have, if they come to me they stay with me !
by Sersi73 on 15 August 2019 - 04:08
by TIG on 16 August 2019 - 07:08
I am not familiar with this dog or his progeny BUT this I do know after many decades in GSDs.
Problems w teeth are missing teeth or too many teeth. Both are seriously penalized under the German Standard. What do the show ratings and koer reports show on the partners involved? If they have no rating or koer there may be a reason.
From my time in the breed it appears that there is a template for the correct # of teeth. Either the dog has it or he/ she doesn't. Dogs who produce missing teeth also can produce too many - thus the reality of an incorrect template.
# of teeth can also be related to jaw problems which generally speaking are much more serious . Overshot in a young dog MAY correct. Under shot will not nor a wry jaw (1 side grows at a different rate from the other causing great problems). The last two you do not want in a dog or in your lines.
The genetics of jaw structure is not well understood in most animals including dogs. There are a number of theories but no hard core scientific proof. For ex one theory contends that jaw problems appear when there is a significant difference in the head structure of the two animals being bred ( think mastiff head in a VA dog w short blocks snout compared to a WGWL w masculine but correct head with correct longer muzzle -2x length of forehead). There appears to be some common sense to this idea but again - no science done plus many jaw issues seem related first and foremost to rate & kind of growth .
On that last point slow to grow and mature seems correlate to longer healthier lives. Fast very early maturity correlates w earlier breakdowns & shorter lives so don't be in a hurry to get to that podium whether show or work.
When I got in this breed what was considered an adult was a dog 4 to 7 years old. Now a days it's 2-3 and a 7 yr is considered a senior - hello it's a working breed.
Related to all of this is longevity which is highly inheritable. You can improve on it in just one generation. Start asking about the dogs in the pedigree - how old where they when they died, what did they die from. Btw I'm talking about healthy old age where the dog still functions well ( ex herding at 14).
OP ask a lot of questions . Ask a lot of people. Granted he may be a popular sire but it takes two to tango so can't place all the problems only on one side. Generally speaking stud dog problems tend to be very well hidden so if there is a lot of smoke I would be looking for the fire.
by TIG on 17 August 2019 - 17:08
Got curious went out to look up dog. For a working dog he does have an impressive # of progeny. The working dog site shows 182 progeny over the age of 20 months. Of those about 35% have been hip/ elbow screened but only 10% have titles - mostly at the one level.
Long been a fan of info/ data tho I always always keep in mind this saying " data is not information, information is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom".
by Blksableworkingdogs on 17 August 2019 - 21:08
by amysavesjacks on 18 August 2019 - 13:08
I own a female from Qvido. EXCEPTIONAL dog! Extreme drive for ball and food, Sensible, obedient... a little leaky in drive when we first start on the field, but otherwise excellent dog all around. She has her BH and a few other titles. She did receive a G-rating at show because she is missing a P1 molar.... HOWEVER, she did have her OFA dentition done and it WAS there... because it was OFA and not via SV/xray, they wouldnt accept it at the show (we think this tooth broke during bitework), so we will be doing a dental xray to confirm. We plan on going for her IGP1 in the spring.
by Nans gsd on 18 August 2019 - 15:08
by jcturf311 on 21 August 2019 - 18:08