by Jefferey on 02 March 2019 - 21:03
I first heard about Peggy when I was looking around for Service Dog GSD Breeders/Trainers, As a 21 year old growing up with very aggressive epilepsy, I decided it might be a good idea to have a partner/companion by my side to help me, Skye did every bit of her job for her whole 2 years, it was first after I noticed she was breathing excessively (I noticed these things very easily as she slept with me every night), me and my mother took her straight to the veterinary hospital to see what was wrong, they couldn't find anything, they suggested an x-ray. After finally getting the results the Vet came in the room to share with us that my 2 year old pup had an enlarged tumor growing up against her chest wall pushing up against her heart; going to the best possible cancer treatment center in Michigan we did everything we could for her and with how aggressive Lymphoma was they gave her 3-6 months with herbal medicine and 6-12 with Chemotherapy. with a two year old puppy to develop extremely aggressive cancer at such a young is uncanny, She lasted 4 months with Chemotherapy costing over $7,000 not including X-rays We told Peggy the news she texted me back told me we must of fed her bad food.
When I purchased Skye from Peggy I was looking for a male, she kept changing her mind on the price she wanted for the dog; I mentioned to her I needed a strong companion with a good temper and a service dog for my needed treatment, she called us later that day and spoke to my mother, and mentioned she would normally charge $2,500, but she could do $1,500 because she claimed to have a reputation breeding Service K9's in her area and also because of my circumstances. Also she would need a down payment of $500 for the male.
The original puppy we agreed to purchase she called to tell us that mother lost the babies and had a miscarriage so we nicely asked for our deposit back, she refused but told us we could have our pick on the next on the next litter. After a month or so she called to tell us that she had 3 females and 2 males but she is keeping one of the males and she sold the other.
The month before I purchased Skye I just recently came out of an incident that I am still now recovering from, being practically brain dead after 5 days of status-epilepticus. I was in a state of condition, I could hardly speak for myself let alone process the thoughts that came to mind; Peggy was clever enough to take advantage of it,
by Reardon on 02 March 2019 - 23:03
It sounds like she was wishy-washy on the price, or perhaps even trying to figure out what kind of a discount she could give you, if at all. She refused to refund the deposit but instead offered you a puppy from a future litter (common practice).
Losing a litter is a devastating and unfortunate circumstance; it's not something that's typically predicted, but she did offer you a puppy from her next litter.
Lymphoma is one of the most common canine cancers, but there are also environmental factors. German Shepherds do not appear to be at as high of a risk of developing this cancer, genetically, as other breeds. However, any breed can develop it at any age in their lifetime. I don't believe there is a genetic test that can determine whether or not the offspring are at risk of developing it (I may be wrong), so as far as knowing this may happen, I'm sure she hadn't a clue.
by Jefferey on 03 March 2019 - 06:03
You may read the links above if you'd like to know more.
by mydaddysjag on 03 March 2019 - 07:03
She discounted your dog by $1000 because you have a disability. You paid a LITTER DEPOSIT of $500 for puppies that werent even on the ground yet. What if that litter didnt produce ANY males. A breeder isnt guaranteed to have any certain gender. Breeding a bitch and it coming up empty is devestating for a breeder - she had no control over that. She moved your deposit to another litter. In that there were two males, however breeders always reserve the right to hold back for themselves before fufilling deposits. If the other male she sold wasn't suitable for a service dog home, it wasn't suitable. Just because you want a certain gender does not mean that the puppy of that gender was suitable for your needs. She would have been irresponsible to place a dog in a SD home if it wasnt cut out for the job. YOU could have asked her to move the deposit to another litter again in hopes of a male SD candidate if you were adamant on a male, you chose to take the female instead of being moved to another litter. The cancer is heartbreaking, but more often than not, cancer is environmentally linked and the dog was 2, which is past a health guarantee. Breeders do their best, but they arent god.
by Hundmutter on 03 March 2019 - 08:03
It is unclear what efforts you / your mother went to, when making initial contact, to confirm the breeder's status as a Service Dog provider - did you do any research on buying a dog, or did you just go for the first ad, and take what the one advert said as Gospel ? So you may have committed Classic Mistake No.1 - failure to do homework / due diligence, and evaluate reputation. People give more care to buying washing machines than they do choosing breeders.
I expect it was very upsetting to get that response from her to your dog's cancer - she should certainly brush up on her people skills.
Nobody wants to hear it could have been their fault the dog got ill, for sure. But as has been said above, many cancers do not have clear hereditary links, so it is hard to see how any breeder could produce dogs that never ran any risk of getting sick from one - and many dog breeders do try very hard to avoid what diseases they can. And actually whatever your Vet said, many people here have lost equally young dogs to aggressive cancers, that really isn't as rare as we'd all like it to be !
And its probably not a good idea for any breeder to take a booking and a deposit on a pup of a particular sex and then not supply that sex, or sell the only available one to somebody else (though the other purchaser may have been waiting longer than you, of course there is that possibility); but they can't predict how many dogs versus bitches they will get in any one litter. You really would not want somebody to keep breeding extra dogs just to ensure every buyer wound up with the preferred sex ?
So sorry you lost Skye so very early in her adult life ( a 2 year old is generally regarded as a 'young adult', not a puppy any longer);
but it sounds as though, for the short time you had her, she lived up to your expectations as an Assistance Dog for your epilepsy. You cannot take that away from the picture; and so it seems the breeder did produce 'the goods', whatever else she is like.
by Jefferey on 03 March 2019 - 10:03
Have a blessed weekend
by Germanshpherdsetc on 03 March 2019 - 15:03
I do not know the breeder or the purchaser but generally speaking a good or better breeder would have either not sold the dog even at a reduced rate and referred her elsewhere to ensure the purchaser received a dog needed or a good breeder would have ensured she sold her the correct dog.
A good breeder would have been much more interested to know more about the sold dogs sickness and not just assume it was environmental or otherwise. They would want to know and would have shown strong interest.
Hope you get the dog you need as well as the dog you want
by Vinny B on 05 March 2019 - 01:03
Cancer, unfortunately can not be tested for. It is an unfortunate situation for all, but not a condition of blame towards a breeder, it is a horrible disease that can occur to man and beast alike at any time. I hope you get a replacement dog/puppy suitable for you and will be healthy for many years to come
All the best
by Hundmutter on 05 March 2019 - 08:03
There seem to be two different schools of thought on what a 'Deposit' on a purchase is, and whether it should always be refundable.
I don't know whether this is a trans-Atlantic difference; other conversations on this board have circled the issue, but firm conclusions have not really been drawn. The OP is being told both things here: "you should have got your deposit refunded", and "no you should not have had it back". The correct answer cannot be both, so maybe it would be useful to look at the circumstances in which dog breeders take deposits on puppies.
This has nothing to do with any other criticisms about the particular breeder, whether of misrepresentations, or the health of her stock.
It is about the general principle.
My understanding from dealing with UK breeders is that if somebody orders a puppy, whether that pup is in a litter that has already been born or whether it is a future speculation booking because a pup is wanted from particular breeder / bloodline, but then the sale is never completed, the Deposit is lost; it does not have to be refunded because it is only a percentage of the final purchase price and - unlike in the sale of inanimate objects (e.g. furniture, or a tool ordered through a hardware store) -, there will have been some expenses to the breeder along the way, in producing the puppy (stud fee, vet care, extra food, etc). There are individual breeders who take a softer line on that, and give back money deposited, but as I understand UK consumer legislation, it supports the position deposits are non-refundable - especially if the original agreement states that it is 'non-refundable' (preferably in writing) - they really are not compelled to do so. [This takes account of the high level of 'time wasting' that occurs in dog purchasing, generally.]
American consumer law may view this differently, I don't know ?
In the OP's case, specifically, there was one Deposit paid, on what eventually became the female, Skye, but was initially called a $500 "down payment on a male". The male pup was not forthcoming - given the business with a litter that apparently didn't 'take', followed by one in which there were 2 males but seemingly not enough to satisfy the OP's 'order'.
BUT the OP DID THEN AGREE to take Skye, the bitch puppy, instead. It is unclear whether he would not have been asked for any Deposit at all on ordering a female puppy - but I doubt that. So he has paid a deposit on 'a' pup, then completes the purchase price, takes the pup home and for the period until she gets sick is apparently satisfied with the purchase. He has not tried to return her before the cancer diagnosis (while she seemed well) on grounds of her being unsuitable by reason of a nervous temperament. (Or if he did, he has not told us that !)
I believe the OP is mixing that basic transaction detail up with the subsequent discovery of cancer. I believe the breeder is not compelled to return any money - because she took a Deposit on a transaction which was completed; because she could not be responsible for an adult dog developing cancer; and because she already seems to have dropped the full price from whatever she normally asks, due to taking the OP's circumstances into account. I do not think the breeder could be expected to know about any further health factors unless the OP / OP's Mom told her about e.g. the particular circumstances of the hospitalization for status elipticus. Honestly, I think a consumer Court would be unlikely to find any differently. Yes it might be a 'nice' thing to do to give all or part of the money back ... but on what we already know of her, that would probably not happen.
by stormins on 19 March 2019 - 05:03
Just curious if you are a breeder with your own kennels?
And if so when was it that you whelped your last litter?
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