Inappropriate Agression , but is this a fear biter? - Page 5

Ok, almost everybody, Hund.

At least nobody said that the dog might have some apprehension to the leadership qualities of his handler.

Or, nobody asked why is this dog still foaming (almost) when kept down.

And, I had a dog (not GSD) who'd try to pin a stranger with her paws, tail up, staring at the eyes, barking, etc.

All she wanted was a head massage.

@Duke

So staring the helper in the eye , positioning his front legs over the helper , and repeatedly trying to bite ( not just bark ) are signs that the dog is just putting on a show , but really he is afraid of the helper?

Swarnendu : 

First ... Regarding the tail wagging : This means nothing except that the dog is stimulated . So the more important questions are what is stimulating this dog , how is it being stimulated and why is the dog stimulated in that specific situation/context. For novices to realize - Dogs do not always wag their tails because they are friendly they can also wag their tails when then are quite unfriendly !

Sometimes just 1 video in a short time is not enough to adequately size up a dog sort to speak . But I think Duke was spot on in his very first post writing the dog is not confident. What I often have written is that if we look at situations categorically with labels , we often mis understand the dog and often get into trouble.

So what I see here a dog in a muzzle acting aggressively . and what do muzzles do ? They prohibit behaviors and create frustration . What do leashes do ? They take away many options of naturally occurring behaviors in dogs. With this in mind I bring in what Duke states about lack of confidence. I see in this first video [ only that I watched] this dog is saying to himself : I have a problem that I cannot solve. Dominance is the furthest thought from this dog's mind. Flight , fright , flight. To solve tis problem , this dog is ready , willing and able to bite , but not fight . If he wanted to fight he would repeatedly like rapid fire keep knocking into the helper. But instead he is on in the helper in a state of thinking ' what can I do ?'. This dog cannot flee and he knows he is on a leash . He cannot bite because his mouth is bound. So he starts to even verbalize his stress and frustration if you listen to the video. Fear , this is a very descriptive of a specific emotional state at the end of a spectrum. Could he be fearful , possible , but I say that this dog might not have to reach that degree of insecurity . He could simply be so intensely uncomfortable , stressed and insecure , just under the realm of outright fear and still be exhibiting this behavior due to his situation . I believe this dog is feeling very very very uncomfortable and trying to solve his problem awkwardly and is confused . Has this dog ever been muzzled and confronted before ? We don't know . Nor do we now the previous experiences of this dog . But there are enough indications that this dog is very conflicted in it's mind , thoughts , feelings , emotions and choices of what to do [ I only mentioned some]. As I wrote , I agree what Duke has tried to enunciate .

I thank the OP for posting that video -- this is a fantastic video and topic to discuss. Dogs can have mixed thoughts , feeling and emotions. I think this is an illustration of that. For those reasons , I also agree that this is
is inappropriate aggression , fearful maybe , but in the very least the dog is not relaxed and comfortable and shows insecurity .
So ..... rhetorically for the posters , or any one else.... is this dog sound ? I know what I have concluded .. but what say you all ??

Cent-
I feel that putting a muzzle on a dog doesnt tell us much.

It is like handcuffing a boxer (the human kind). You are taking away his hands and protection.
When you take away a dogs mouth, you are taking away his hands and his protection. A dogs mouth is the equivalent of a human‘s hands.

Of course a muzzled dog feels powerless and frustrated, as I wrote before. It is a frustrated dog that is lunging and trying to get the arm of Herve. Not necessarily afraid. We don’t know if the muzzle is on for the first time or not.

I think we are not seeing enough in the vid to evaluate if this dog is unsound.

My first instinct would be to say that he is not unsound.

But I say that without being able to see more than this snippet of video.

ADD: I say he is sound due to the way he functions without the muzzle in the next 2 segments of training. That he is pulling to his owner instead of heeling toward the end of the vid is just probably a training issue.
 

but what say you all ??

 i would say it's a shitty, senseless exercise, which can't demonstrate anything other 
than harshly confined dog been put in quite stupid situation.
b.t.w. second video with two "cowboys" practicing on dog, even more stupid.

 

@ HM I saw the same guy in doing some French Ring exercises a few years ago


That dog body language remember me from dog I get a few years ago handled by many KNPV trainers who can,t handle that dog by wrong training he get unbelievable hard punishment by not so smart and FAIR handling skills
so his trust for people was out of his mind, dog have bitten some handlers to hospital and realy got in fight with some handlers


Unbelievable hard dominant hard dog work later for AT = SWAT team later in Rotterdam

I wish could find more dogs like him

Without the muzzle that dog will bite the shit out of you and not he is a scary nervy shit dog believe me.... But we only see a very small moments of this dog on video like to know the whole story of him

and Glock is spot on....

And a muzzle is for every dog very UNNATURAL  for sure in the beginning 

 

Valk can you expand on some details of your view point?

to have viewpoint, first need to know purpose of this demonstrated exercise.
what i saw is only how to limit the dog to avoid biting and to tire him down.
it doesn't shows the dog itself and his capacities.