German Shepherd police dog on the run / courage zero - Page 2

Valk - can you please explain what you mean?

Valk: "good illustration of eventual outcome which should expect participants and proponents of "bite philosophy opinions"
and any other "building up dog's self confidence" discussions."

I take this statement as meaning, the dog running back and avoiding contact or even involvement with bad guy illustrates the result of trying to build up a dog's self confidence....if a dog does not have the balls for confronting a violent person, then he doesn't belong there. He's taking the job of a qualified dog.

Joan, spot on.

Koots
on many occasions, including topic  "Opinions on this bite training philosophy" i expressed my firm stand - if dog 
is lacking inborn abilities to perform "street work", nothing can be done. that was a reason for existence special 
breeding facilities and programs, towarded to produce the dogs, suitable for patrol and sentry purposes, where was 
practiced harsh selection and rejection the dogs with even slightest failure.

if dogs doesn't have it, just leave these dogs to be what they are. don't try to do them better, eventually they will fail 
in most crucial moment.

OK - I totally agree with selecting dogs which have the innate, genetic character traits that will enable them to perform certain tasks. I also believe that some training issues resulting in conflict between dog and handler can be resolved by thoughtful behaviour modification training. This does not mean that an unsuitable dog should trained to do a job that it cannot handle due to character flaws or inadequacies, but that sometimes training style can result in conflict between handler and dog.

For example - I was helping train a new K9 that was recently imported. From what I can tell in my initial assessment of his bitework, this dog was trained in a "quick & dirty" way and had conflict between handler which was expressed by displacement behaviour on the sleeve. After a bite, the dog would concentrate/bite on the sleeve so much that I was able to slip the sleeve and go behind the dog and lift him by his tail. All the dog did was to bite harder on the sleeve, showing displacement behaviour and stress especially when the handler was standing nearby. After discussion with the handler and the other helpers/decoys, a training strategy was devised to get this dog to NOT be sleeve-focused and reduce the conflict with the handler. This dog had strong character/nerve, good bite & drive, hard hit and everything else desired so we worked on the displacement and relationship with handler. It didn't take long for the dog to figure out that the fight was with the man, and not the sleeve on the ground, and when it clicked the dog switched like a light bulb, becoming a really good dog who loved the fight against the man. There was no more equipment fixation, and as soon as the sleeve was slipped the dog would come after the man looking to fight him. Muzzle work was also intense with strong fight and commitment. Also, the handler/dog relationship turned around, and the dog learned that the handler was there to back him up in the fight, and not to take away his fun or create conflict. That dog was a blast to work, and a good example of how modifying a negative-association behaviour was possible to make a great K9. BUT, the fundamental character traits were already in the dog, we just shaped and modified them.

So seems like the Dutch police have all their kennels full of only GENETICALLY "Real Dogs", no trained behaviour.

Why do they still need KNPV to source their next GENETICALLY "Real Dogs"? Why not breed GENETICALLY "Real Dogs" themselves even for rest of the world?

Desired Genes are not 100% passed on to every single progeny. There has to be a selection process to determine those with 'the right stuff' from those without.

No, Swarn, it's even better - genetically "real" dogs don't need any training...they genetically know what to do ... acknowledging the bad guy on their own, bite, out, heel, down, stay ...it's genetics.

Gosh, Susie, sounds like you discovered 'genetic obedience'. Down, stay, heel....all with out being trained....you might be on to sumpthin really big. Bottle it and you can sell it, along with the sv gsd being shipped from Germany, lol.

one could wonder after seeing these type of dogs being sold by police , if it is a selection problem, or lack of availability of capable dogs, or both ???

 

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