by TawnBawn on 10 April 2018 - 15:04
I have just noticed the my German Shepherd Female Luna Vom Blumen Der Rose( She is on this site) has brown coming through on her front and back legs. ( Not sure how to upload pics on here yet.... She has had Brown in between her toes for quite a while but never any by her vent. She is registered as a Solid Black. What genetic causes this change? How do I find out if she is a melanistic bi-color or black with bleed through?Whats the difference? I plan on breeding her when shes older (2 years and OFA'd and hopefully her BH) Would like breed her to a dark sable. What would be the outcomes be of that breeding? Her Sire is Black with some brown bleed through like her and her Dam is a sable. Her grandmother is a Bi-color on her dam's side. Any advice is helpful :) I posted the photos of her legs on her page in her galleries.
by Sunsilver on 10 April 2018 - 15:04
A bicolor dog will have brown around its vent.
Black is recessive, so the dam must carry the gene for black, and indeed, there are quite a few black dogs in her pedigree.
by dpn on 10 April 2018 - 19:04
by dpn on 10 April 2018 - 19:04
by yhecht on 10 April 2018 - 20:04
I have owned solid black dogs for over 60 years, and this is the first time that I have run into this. Rebel's sire and dam are solid black, though in looking at the dams photo more closely now. I can see the brown on her front legs. All 12 pups in the litter were black, though I do not know if any of the others have the same problem
Here is his pedigree plus some early pictures.
He legs have 'Dirty" brown hairs on them similiar to this dog. Sorry, I live alone and he would not hold still long enough for me to get a good picture of them. I started noticing the brown when he was about 1 year old.
by Hundmutter on 10 April 2018 - 21:04
It seems increasingly common, I have seen this in the flesh and there have been discussions on here a couple of times. Since dpn has linked us Daryl Ehret's chart, hopefully Daryl will get wind of this and come back here; if he does, how do you, Daryl, explain this phenomenon of the ostensibly all-black dogs having brown markings on their legs, please ? Personally I don't get how this fits the genetic picture, or what we know about dogs being either: black with varying amounts of tan, (including none ?) / OR sable. Yet it undoubtedly happens. And these marks do not look anything like the blocks of tan (or Gold or Red, whichever you prefer to call them) which present themselves on 'normal' bi-colour or saddle-marked dogs.
by susie on 11 April 2018 - 18:04
I personally never cared that much about color genetics cause color neither influences working ability nor structure - but although clueless I'd call a dog of this kind a black/tan - in this case ( although not even officially mentioned in the SV standard ) a " bi color" .
by Hundmutter on 11 April 2018 - 19:04
by Lunastar on 12 April 2018 - 02:04
yhecht, that is a photo of my girl Sasha's tan bleeding through found here:
Sasha's father is a solid black while her mother is a sable. I met them both when we went to pick a puppy for my future service dog. In all the black bleed through GSDs pedigrees, I have noticed that one parent is usually sable the other black while there are also usually a few bi-colors for grandparents on one or both sides. Maybe the bleed through dogs are actually bi-color sables genetically?
by Hundmutter on 12 April 2018 - 06:04
It strikes me as most likely that this 'bleed through' has somehow arisen from an increase in Sable to Sable matings, with the popular concentration on very dark offspring ('black sables').