Schutzhund/sporting line or Security/Police line German Shepherds - Page 1

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by acong on 24 March 2018 - 08:03

Dear German Shepherds owners/Enthusiast,

I am questioning two groups of working line German Shepherds.

I. West German Schutzhund line (with strong working titles) such as Maise's Bonifatius, Como v. Bonauer Wald, Sam Beit Haboxer Mehagiva, etc.

II. Security line such as Vonammerberg Drago, Regalhaus Hagi, Vom Sirius Banks, Xamm vom Oxemberg, Security Lex, etc.

My questions are as follow.
a) Which group is more intelligent and easier to train, Group I or Group II?
b) Which group is easier to live with?
c) Generally, which group have better temperament (more obedient, stable temperament, have on and off switch)?
d) Lastly, if you have to choose one, which group would you have?

I really appreciate your personal comments. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Bobby

by Gustav on 27 March 2018 - 13:03

I think your security line is just individual dogs and do not equate to a line. Jmo

by apple on 27 March 2018 - 14:03

I would agree and think you are asking the wrong questions. More intelligent in terms of what? Easier to train for what and based on what approaches? What is your training experience? Easier to live with in terms of what and what will the dog's living arrangements be? You might rethink what traits you are looking for in a dog, decide what you are going to do with the dog, and then you can better focus on a pedigree that increases your odds of getting what you want. But you have to have access to people who are very knowledgeable about working line pedigrees, the dogs in them, and what they tend to produce, like Gustav.

by acong on 30 March 2018 - 09:03

More intelligent means easy to learn and pick up the things taught very quickly. Easier to train for obedient or tracking and general comments. Easier to live means the dogs are not demand of long day/routine exercise. Some German shepherds will be destructive if they are not exercised everyday. I like the dog that has an on and off switch. He is happy to stay at home or happy to go to the park to exercise or get some basic training at home. If you have to choose one of them, do you prefer the West German strong Schutzhund line or Security line? This is just a general questions.

Thanks.

by apple on 30 March 2018 - 12:03

Again, I don't think you have enough understanding to ask the right questions. A dog learning quickly and being easier to train has a lot to do with the skill of the trainer. Overall, I would say dogs breed to be security dogs are going to be harder, more aggressive and possible more dominant dogs, which would make them more challenging to train. But again, I really don't think of it as a bloodline. Overall, it sounds like you want to avoid a breeding likely to produce very high drive dogs.
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 30 March 2018 - 14:03

West German SchH is hardly 'one line' either, acong.

There may be breeding links between the dogs you name, but I never heard of any of them.  I found Como v. Bonauer Wald on here, he has for e.g. Mohenweise breeding which like most German dogs under the German system means the sporting and showline blood runs through both - but his pedigree was placed 18 years ago !  Influence would be fading ...

And yet I am far more familiar with names & pedigrees of WG dogs than I am with the detail of dogs bred for generations of actual 'Working' lines - by which I take it you mean Personal Protection as well as the various aspects of Security industries, etc - in America (or elsewhere).

 

Like apple, I think you are looking at the question of what you personally want in a dog the wrong way up.  Don't worry about which of those two 'lines' other people prefer, that is a nonsense distinction anyway.  Instead decide 'how much dog' YOU can handle; and study the dogs alive today which are available to you, and come to your own conclusions.  Just about everybody wants a dog to have an 'Off-switch'; only an idiot wants one that is clearly hyperactive, or unsafe.  Where you draw  the lines will depend not just on the individual dog - and mostly its immediate relatives - but on your abilities and experience as a handler / trainer of dogs.

Koots

by Koots on 30 March 2018 - 17:03

Perhaps if you tell us where you live (general area, not specifically) then someone may be able to tell you about a 'local' breeder of medium-drive, easily-trainable GSD.

by acong on 01 April 2018 - 00:04

I agree with some of what Apple says.

I have seen some intelligent shepherds which are very easy to be trained and learn quickly but some are not. I have seen some like running and running around the field. I heard the DDR or Czech shepherds are harder but more suitable for security/protection/Police dogs. In general, are they more intelligent than West German line?

I prefer the moderate drive shepherds but has the potential to be trained for Schutzhund or security dog someday as well as easy to live with (not demanding heavy exercise everyday).

I live in Australia. Does anyone know such a kennel that breed those character of Shepherds?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 April 2018 - 06:04

What a pity our poster in Victoria, Australia, 'VK4', no longer visits these pages; I'm sure he might have been able to help with this one !

@Acong, which State are you based in ? Can you not contact a Club anywhere in reach ( I know Oz can be geographically difficult). There are breeders in your country who are into making Working Lines dogs, its not all show & conformation there. It is all about making contacts.

As dogs are individuals, there will be some less 'drivy' pups in some WL litters, you need to find a breeder who knows what they are doing and can pick you out an appropriate pup and who you can trust.  If you are seeing dogs running around a ring  ... those are Show folk, but keep approaching them with the RIGHT questions and you may well be able to find what you are looking for; SOME Show people are interested in Work, or will have contacts with those who are; there may be local Breed Notes or magazines you can find Kennels listed in, etc.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 April 2018 - 07:04

PS Still a bit worried about your general approach, btw; the GSD is a large active pastoral breed - it NEEDS exercise. Whatever its nature / sport or work drives. Yep, every day. If you cannot commit to that, find a different breed, one with guarding potential but lower exercise requirements.

And when you talk about 'someday potential' please remember the GSD always needs training, you cannot park even the softest natured Show Dog on a shelf for a year then expect it to be any good for anything except being a spoilt brat. People who train GSDs for SchH OR Protection work start by 6 months at the latest if they want really successful results, no matter HOW the dog is bred; and a lot of basics are going in, from well before that in puppyhood.

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