Realistic time frame for titling a dog - Page 4

And I seriously mean my above post in a lighthearted "Really?!" tone, not an angry, nasty tone. Truly. I actually don't think you're a bad guy and I am not actually upset but tone is impossible to accurately portray via text. I think I speak for many when I say we're incredulous that you can really think it's fine to conduct yourself that way to everyone who posts anything about themselves or their dogs, no matter how innocent, just because you're anonymous. You degrade everyone and every accomplishment of theirs, whether you know them or their dogs or not.

To belittle someone so much your senior and so much more accomplished (just a wild stab in the dark) is tough to wrap one's head around.

I would like to interject on BW's behalf that they admitted to me in a PM, to having a SO, so that would mean they are not single.

Jenni, are you still engaged? I lost touch with your status, I admit! So now I do wonder?

I've never stated we were at the same events, I've stated we should've been, and that we've had the opportunity to be, yet you've never been there. If you were involved in IPO or the breed, you would be at the events I'm talking about, you'd also have no problem figuring out who I am based on my name here.

I'm also not sure when I've ever claimed to be the authority on all things GSD. I know that you're using that in order to rifle up some of the troops on here that also have an issue with me, so that's fine. All I've been trying to point out is the hypocrisy and the constant hiding of information by those that have the information when it comes to the dog world. Things that people are afraid to admit or even speak of because it's how they make money and a living. Can't possibly admit these types of things because it has a chance to bring down the system and expose the inefficiencies in the market from which these individuals make a living. I'm not sure if most of the people do it knowingly or if they do it on purpose to make sure the inefficiencies still exist, but it is what it is.

In this case...it's the complete and utter denial that a local level 288 does not equate to a higher level 288. It's the stating of the score and then not including information about where it happened and under which judge so that people "in the know" would have a better idea of the type of scrutiny the dog was under at that trial. If you feel like also denying that different judges definitely have different sharpness of pencil, that's fine too, we can deny another well known fact by anyone involved in dog sport. The whole thing is a game...how to keep people looking for information in the dark, and how to make sales by keeping those people in the dark. Don't want to admit it? That's fine too. We can keep everyone in the dark and deny the things we all whisper about with our closest friends and others playing the same game we are.

 

BTW...I'm aiming to stay as anonymous as possible in order to prove how no matter what, most of us keep a certain level of anonymity online, even those that have admitted what they've done or listed off some accomplishments, keep plenty hidden and don't tell the full story. Most of the time they leave out the bad parts, only tell you the good parts, in order to make themselves seem more successful than they truly are. Back in the day on PDB (before I was here, I've looked up posts) we had people that used their names and you knew exactly who they were and what they had accomplished, at this point in time...there isn't anyone on here who's name carries much weight...and so most of those people don't ever tell you the full story in order to make themselves have more weight. We have people making claims...but never backing them with real facts. Most of you accept it because you WANT to believe that they're true...in my case, due to the complete unknown (and the way I write) most of you don't want to accept my claims. It's really only because of your negative feelings towards me though, and not the actual information I'm sharing. We're all human...and can't keep emotion out of learning.

No dog in this fight but I don't recall bw being a know it all. S/he tends to stick to a narrow range of topics the s/he evidently knows a lot about.

I have never seen a post by bw that belittles another person or dog, S/he is usually about unpacking claims that are usually wrapped in exaggerated or misleading packaging.

Jmo.

I'm not going to go into PM discussion any further on here, because I *really* don't have a problem with you, but I could swear we discussed an event local to me several years back and we had the same recollection. Hence, I was there. I was the one juggling the little boy, the black dog, and the camera. I have never TRIED to figure out who you are. That's the part you're missing. It doesn't matter to me. I don't think it matters to anyone else, either.

I don't care if someone wants to stay private. That's 100% fine by me. I will never be in the "Post a video or it doesn't exist" camp. What matters is that you don't really have the right to bash people as if you're the authority on who accomplished what and what level someone else's dogs are. You might not start posts like Mithuna and openly bash people, but you put down everything that isn't top tier sport training and you belittle some very knowledgeable folks who have a ton of experience in the breed. I know, I know, I remember you saying that you don't respect people who have been in the breed a long time because they're out of touch with the sport or whatever, but I don't think a lot share your opinion.


What is this talk about a local level 288? What's this obsession about where a dog (any dog) was trialed? I mean, do you know who trialed the dog? Do you know where it was? Do you know what country? Do you know the owner? The judge? ANYTHING? You said you don't even know who the dog is. THAT is my point. You know squat about the subject and yet you're judge and jury and as usual, throwing everyone into one big pot of "not good enough." Smh.

Want to know where I found the score for the dog Mithuna alleged wasn't a legit title? I didn't remember it. It's been years since I heard it. I remembered the range, but not the score. Why not? Because I didn't care. I found it by looking it up online. You know, there are records of such things. Again, the dog in question is dead, the owner is dead, Mithuna is doing his usual dance, and you're playing detective, sure you can uncover some dastardly deed if you only look hard enough, lol.

This is insane. I do wish Steve was here to read this. I am quite sure he'd also invite you over to meet the dog. :D I'm out.

My point wasn't about THAT particular dog. My point was that given the facts:

1) Titled from IPO1 to IPO3 in 7 months
2) Sold to the United States after IPO3 before 2 years of age
3) Never trialed again
4) There are questions about the legitimacy of said titles (I don't question the dog earned the titles)
5) Achieved a 288
6) Not bred to at the rate that would be expected of a dog with such accolades

My conclusion is that the dog's 288 wasn't achieved at a trial which impressed many people. Question is definitely there about why the dog wasn't shown more, before or after coming to the United States. Assuming the dog is capable of such a high score (without judge help), showing it at a higher trial would bring more money for the trainer/handler and in return also bring in more stud fees for the eventual owner of the dog. Why cut such a specimen short if it was truly such a gifted dog? Again...I'm speaking of a theoretical dog, not the dog that you and Mithuna had been discussing. Remove that part from the conversation (which wasn't included in the OP), and you'd understand my skepticism. If you're not skeptical...I question how much you truly know about the dog market as it stands today, if you are just playing off as there's no reason to be skeptical because you don't want people with less knowledge than you knowing that in this type of situation...you should definitely see red flags...you're just playing the game I described above.

If you're speaking of the 2013 Regional, I didn't know who you were back then, only came to know of you later on. ;)

Bav, I think by all you are writing and defending I know who you are, and I think you underestimated or misjudged or mis expected American dogworld a bit
State to the art kennels and flashy website are worth more than good dogs in or on it, and fame moves on and forgets people easily

and why would you link the amount of breedings a dog will get, to his scores, regional, local or world level, do you select breedingmaterial by points HHMMMM interesting

again, is a supertrained dog also a great producer, and do you really think at worldlevel there are no trainers starting their routine with 105 points

maybe better lighten up and do what your good at, and stop asking other people to prove everything they state until you are willing to do the same

Lol duke…I’ll explain it for you.

I’m calling out the market/population as a whole. I’m doing the same thing you do, but I’m just choosing to point it out about the whole market rather than attack particular individuals (like you choose to do). You can’t point out the inefficiencies in the market because it’s where you make your living, I can because I just don’t care lol.

Here’s what I’m stating…if all those things were true about that dog…he would’ve been bred to dozens of times in the United States because that’s how the breeding in the United States works. Right/wrong, people breed to the big name/high scoring dog that has been brought over from Germany in the last year. That’s the rule that YOU’RE always claiming is followed by breeders. When a dog comes over claiming to have scored that high, and doesn’t get bred to…you have to see the situation as an outlier and question it. That’s all I’m doing. Noticing how the situation above is an outlier and questioning WHY the breeders in the United States decided not to follow the tried and true path you’re constantly bashing them for (including me in the last post even though you have no idea what I’ve actually bred).

So what actually ended up happening is that you’ve disproven your own rants you go on about people just breeding to points dogs. Clearly in this case people didn’t. Means the breeders do know what they’re talking about right and for whatever reason have chosen not to use this dog? Looks like this situation throws a huge wrench in your whole “breeding to points dogs” theory and disproves everything you’ve ever stood for in life. Or maybe…just maybe…people did see the work and didn’t trust the score or breed blindly to it like they do to everything else. So you have to definitely wonder about the dog and the score.

bav, only ONE BIG mistake in your last post, I never said people bred for points, I said fame and podium, quite a difference
if a dog has high scores once, doesnot make it famous nor a podiumdog
one of the most bred dogs in recent history never scored points on high level, but was made very famous anyway

so again, points dont say anything about the actual dog or his suitability for breeding,its traininglabour, and if you look at ads for pups, people are throwing names of famous dogs in the pedigree to impress buyers, never saw one mentioning scores of grandparents

Why can't you name the dog? Why is that so hard? Why do we keep speaking in cryptic/abstract and not give the information we have? Oh...that's right...remember what I've been saying...the whole goal is to keep people in the dark.

There hasn't been a single major stud in the United States in the last 5-10 years who hasn't placed fairly well in either a regional or national event. They might not have won, but they scored pretty well and were able to beat a lot of other dogs.

It’s alright though…move off your point once you realize how you’ve talked yourself in a circle…rail against points again. The idea is the same, you just have to try to squeeze some sort of “fame and recognition” from the conversation and show people you do know what you’re talking about and it’s not in agreement with me. It’s your original idea and only yours. You’re stuck anyways…you’ve stated too often that people breed to points, yet in this case for some reason they didn’t. Dog never had enough progeny on the ground to prove that he wasn’t a worthy producer, something else was the reason why he wasn’t bred (or at least bred more). More than likely the fact that the 288 was earned in a questionable way and I’m assuming there was probably a much more accomplished male or two in the country at the time anyways. So the question is…why import the dog, why not show the dog more? I guess without knowing what the sales price was we can’t question the transaction completely, but from the outside looking in, it makes little sense...there was a lot of money left on the table if the claims about the dog are true.

Anyone that understands the system will question why a dog wasn’t shown at a higher level…it would bring more money to the trainer, more recognition and presumably more business to the trainer. One more trial (LGA) and the price of the dog goes up two fold if not more…stud opportunities increase. But it didn’t happen…so why not question it? Why ignore the fact that for another weekend of work…a person could’ve made at least another $2000 or more if the dog placed well or replicated his score at the local trial? There’s usually only one reason why a dog is sold prior to a title, or prior to showing at a bigger trial…but we can ignore that and keep it between our buddies that also know the reasons. Last thing we need is for the new people coming to PDB to know how “the system” really works.