Information regarding a pedigree and kennel - Page 1

Achilles vom Haus Dreisprung Pedigree is listed below

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=748905-achilles-vom-haus-dreisprung

Kennel Haus Von Sternen German Shepherds (Pictures of Achilles)

https://www.facebook.com/DentonsGSDs/photos/?tab=album&album_id=227878003975762

There has been a few claims that this dogs pedigree is stolen, I have been approached a few times with a breeding offer on this male and wanna make sure everything is on the up and up. How would I go about making sure the dog in these pictures is actually the pedigree claiming it is? The stud fee is up there so I just wanna make sure I am getting what I paid for. Thank you.

Happy 4th of July

I checked the SV database and they have no record of Orlanda vom Wällerhorst producing a dog named Achilles Vom Haus Dreisprung

The only litter the SV shows for her is the "C" vom Ortenberg Oct 14, 2010.

However Orlanda Vom Wallerhorst is registered with the AKC DN23613502
The sire Como vom Bonauer Wald however is not registered with AKC.

Looking at Orland's AKC registration number, it was issued in late 2008 or early 2009. She received her breed Survey in Aug 2010, which would have been about the same time that she had the "C" vom Ortenberg litter in Germany.

So nothing that I have written, proves or disproves whether or not Achilles vom Haus Dreisprung is her offspring. I would say that you have to check with the AKC and see what they have to say or try to contact her breeder ..Dieter Tisberger, Wetzlar

You might also try to contact Ronny Van den Berghe (Belgium).  He is the one who handles Como vom Bonauer Wald (the sire)

Where is he getting all that long hair? Both sire and dam are
Stockhaar.  The dog (Achilles) does not look like a product of these 2 parents at all.

http://www.schaferhunde.it/phpbb/bollettini%20monte/anno%202011/Bollettino-Aprile-2011.pdf

*Como vom Bonauer Wald 2185014 SchH3(V-WUSVWM)
SchH3(B) (70)
R. van den Berghe, Sterrebos 50, B-2200 Noorderwyk
26.03. *Orlanda vom Wällerhorst 2212198 SchH2 (76)
E. Kaltenbach, Finkenstr. 4, 35112 Fronhausen

They were bred on 26.03.2011

Achilles the dog in question has two other full liter mates in the system one does Ali vom Haus Dreisprung Dam born: 26. May 2011 AKC DN31648604 which does look LC looking at the pedigree a few from different mothers same Sire has "plush" LC and so he does seem to carry for it. The earlier pictures look good but then you get to these later pictures (I know coat and color does change somewhat) It just looks like a different dog and one of the ears is now weak or down. Also Achilles seems to be a blue carrier which raises more questions. I will contact AKC see what they may say perhaps a DNA test would put my mind a little at ease. I am not sure all and all it does raise red flags but I will continue my research. Thank you Fantom76 for the reply.

Sorry I missed that Nachrichten. "Hukka" is really sharp and on the ball.

DNA test sounds like a good way to go to me. That way you will know for sure and never wonder if you made a mistake.

Then your next question becomes is this dog a good partner for the female, and will he potentially produce the type of dog that you are looking for. Only you can answer that.

The only coated dog I'm aware of in Achilles' pedigree is Mona Döllenwiese--have heard it said that she 'had a coat like a Collie' when not 'groomed', despite what her breed survey indicates, and she's pretty darn fluffy in a picture taken in her retirement...

It's one thing for a dog or bitch to carry for and produce blues, but quite another for a breeder to use the blues for breeding, or to intentionally breed to get blues.

As a bitch owner, I'd have to wonder why someone would specifically approach me to use their male on my female...generally, it's the bitch owner who approaches the stud owner about using their dog.

I was approached I am assuming because of my bitches pedigree and the fact she wants two female pups from my female and her male for her breeding program. My bitch is a liver and while I don't breed for it she has a remarkable pedigree. Before I am attacked please note I do not consider myself by any means a breeder just someone that is very passionate about the German Shepherd breed regardless of any color produced.

When breeding I rather have a "off colored" then a dog breed with horrible genetic conditions. There are many things that can go wrong when breeding color is very far on that list. Instead I see breeders who don't consider any kind of OFA testing, DM or EPI which concerns me, or a dog that is so fearful doesn't have a confident temperament it makes me frustrated along with how many people are being scammed.

Also many that don't take in the consideration of the two dogs they are pairing up.

Off-color is a 'genetic condition', too, though admittedly not one that is likely to have a detrimental effect on the dog's health and quality of life.

As I said--I don't have a problem with individual off-color dogs, and certainly don't agree with the old recommendation that they be culled at birth; but such dogs shouldn't be bred from, no matter how awesome the pedigree they have behind them. There's ALREADY a glut of GSDs on the face of the Earth, and no one dog, regardless of it's color, has a corner on the genetics that are the key to the survival of the breed.

We know the genetics for the off-colors persist within the breed, and I'm inclined to believe that trying to eliminate heritable traits within a breed which don't negatively impact the health and well-being of a dog, JUST because those traits are outside the breed standard, is probably foolhardy and would contribute to the amplification of some beyond cosmetically-detrimental trait instead. It's one reason I think the SV was wrong to ban the long stockhair from breeding, and is still wrong by reversing the ban but segregating the LSH to its own registry within the SV system...

I want it all from a breeder: that the breeding stock be evaluated and certified from nose to tail, from paw-pad to ear-tip, for everything we can screen, test or examine for health-wise, temperament-wise, and working ability-wise...and I want that breeding stock to fully conform to the breed standard, too.

Why is that last part important to me, too? Because if we're going to ignore the breed standard, why bother creating or perpetuating purebred dogs in the first place?

@ Hexe Well said.

I know the Off-colors are genetic but from my above statement as I said I don't think it should be thrown away. The old stories and current practice of culling these puppies at birth just because of a fault is incredible awful, its sad in human standards anything we don't understand or consider perfect we can just throw away even when its as simple as a color that has been proven to exist in the breed. (we do the same thing now a days with children too putting a label on everything)

Breeding for color regardless of any standards being upheld is what I suspect gives these dogs such shame that people are willing to attack the owner and say awful things. I had a person approach me asking what my dog was when I explained they decided to take it upon themselves while on a random walk mind you about how awful I was for having such a dog. There are breed standards in place for a reason you are correct when creating a purebred dog but even some of these "breeders" (I use the term loosely) are just taking two dogs that meet those standards breeding and expecting the perfect result. As you said it

I also want it all from a breeder. I understand some breeders do have a resulting pup that is a shock or faulty of some nature. You know what I am hear to say that is okay. This is the risk anyone takes when breeding how you handle it speaks volumes about yourself being a responsible breeder. Be responsible test and make sure your dog isn't a carrier if you don't agree with the colors, if your dog is a carrier test the pups (its a cheap color test that can be done at home and sent away) even throwing colored pups doesn't mean all pups in that litter will be carriers. The colored pups be prepared to open Pandora's box with everyone coming to you asking for full registration breeding rights to capitalize off as some of these breeders call it "rare exotic colors" (pukes a little) They aren't rare they aren't worth more. People that breed and claim such have a very dirty agenda in mind.

Normally they take such a dog and will pair it with anything that throws color regardless of any tests and exam. Please don't be fooled those of you looking for a Off-colored do your research people that wanna help this color shine will truly be a diamond in the rough. Dig through the pedigrees hard, health contracts in place, along with dogs that actually are participating in some kind of events not just kept in kennels to blow there loads and become nipple dragging on the ground bitches.