Have You Ever Encountered This? - Page 1

Have you ever encountered a litter where the dam is a sable carrying solid black and the sire is a solid black and all puppies turned out to be solid black as well? There was one puppy in the litter that was sable, but was born still born.

NO but I know someone who bred a black and tan female that carried the black recessive to a black male and 9 out of 11 pups were black.

How old are the puppies?? Some solid blacks aren't really solid blacks .. they are bi-colors with almost no brown. When you breed a bi-color male to a solid black female most of the puppies will be blacks or dark bi-colors. Bi-color is a subjective color and some bi-colors are real bi-colors are some are wanna be bi-colors. I have bred more solid blacks than any color because I had a solid black stud and a bi-color stud and several solid black females. Some puppies are born looking like a solid black and end up as a bi-color or a very dark black sable that lightens with age by 24 months of age. I have had a few blacks born looking liver and darken to black. The color of the dog is the adult coat at 18-24 months. The color at birth is not necessarily what the dog will turn out to actually be. There are plenty of examples in nature of the birth color being distinctly different from the adult color.

These puppies in question are only a day old. They have no other color around their vent or anywhere else on their body except for solid black. To my knowledge of how genetics work, sable is dominant with black being recessive and takes two copies of the gene to produce black. So, with this sable female carrying black bred to a solid black stud, it's not THAT impossible that she would have all solid blacks, except for one still born, is it?

The punnett square you do for the color of the puppies is PER PUPPY, and not for the litter. So although you want to think the genetics say 50% of the litter should be sable and 50% should be black, in reality all it means is that each puppy has a 50% chance of being either sable or black. In this case, black won out more than the sable did.

Someone wrote of a litter on here a few months ago where the parents were sable and black and tan, both carried a black recessive. 4 puppies came out black and tan, 3 came out black, and 1 was a sable. The chances of a sable were 50%, black and tan 25%, and black 25%, yet you see how the actual litter turned out.

It's very possible as Bavarian Wagon explained. In your example, similar to a whole litter of males or females-it can happen.

I have had a litter that sire was black & tan with black rec./dam bi-color with black rec. I got 1 black & tan out of 6 pups (&1 bi-color, 4 blacks).

A lot of years ago I knew of a breeding that was repeated 3 times-the third litter they got all liver long coats. They had no livers or coats in the first 2 litters.

Candace

At one day after birth they are all dark something .. wait two months before you send the paperwork in with their colors and wait until 18 months to find out what color the puppies will turn out to really be as adults.

It's against the odds, but it can happen.

I bred a sable to a sable and got 5 solid black pups out of 9. And I got 6 long coats. Statistically, I should have gotten 25% solid black and 25% long coats (neither parent was coated, but obviously, both parents carried for it).

And the reverse -- I bred the same sable/black female to a (different) sable/black male -- I ended up with 5 sables.

Christine

It definitely caught me off guard to have an entire litter, with the exception of one puppy, being solid black. I know that the female carries for black, because when she was bred to another sable carrying black, she threw two solid blacks in that litter. So, I knew that she would have at least some solid blacks, just wasn't expecting this much lol. As long as they are all healthy and have excellent drive and temperament, I could care less if they are solid black or not.

For the practical purpose of telling one baby puppy from
the next in a litter, all solid blacks are hardly any more
difficult than an 'even' litter of black&reds, where for many
days all are very dark with virtually identical small areas of
gold ! ; )
Best of luck with this large litter, kiesgsd.