What kind of test is this CZ police dogs? - Page 3

So what did the dogs learn from this so called "test" other than they wish they had handlers with better sense or greater training skills .. perhaps both?? An IPO dog that has no experience on a bite suit or hidden sleeve will do poorly until introduced to leg bites and biting something other than a dead arm for the first time. Most sleeve trained dogs will chase the sleeve if thrown on the ground. There is a good reason that most police dogs are trained on hidden sleeves. IPO dogs are obviously over rated as protection and police dog candidates due to equipment bias associated with sleeves. I don't know if these three dogs had previous training on bite suits or hidden sleeves but the two German Shepherds did not appear to know what they were doing. The second GSD appears to be trying to figure out what the hell is going on and where is the sleeve. I would not subject a dog to such nonsense and risk injury on a slick floor just to watch the dog do poorly .. the test says more about the testers and their understanding and connection with their dogs than the dogs performance did.

If you think you can LEARN!!! a dog to stay in that fight - you are sorely wrong.
(the word LEARN is the opposite of what these tests are about, a dog does not  LEARN TO IMPROVISE/ENGAGE)

For some handlers, it is imperative they LEARN the real limitations or otherwise of what is at the end of the leash. (this might not be important for you, and thats fine and dandy, but your cotton wool approach would not cut the mustard for some - including myself)

It's not about whether a dog is IPO trained only on a sleeve as opposed to a suit/ hidden sleeve,
a driven dog IPO or not will follow through - full stop.

Re injury on a slick floor, my concern would be, if that's your concern - not overly impressed with the confidence you have in your own progeny, are you worried about broken bones/pulled muscles?

Slippery floors are a fact of life, a working dog who can not contend with that - is not fit for purpose.

Regards
Gee


 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Kroja2008/featured

A ton of these type videos .. some with IPO, some with Mondio and some with agility .. Apparently the comrades must die regularly as they have several memorial trials??  There have been plenty of dogs ruined by idiot trainers and blaming the dog for not doing something the dog has not trained for is the character of an idiot Gee.  The smart handler does not waste the dog on stupid stunts or sending them to get injured.  The dog can be willing to die for the handler but it is a trick the dog can only do once.  Many of the dogs appear inexperienced and unprepared for the Mondio style bites.  There are a lot more videos from the same account listed on youtube including IPO, Mondio Ring and agility, etc..  What you will see is that the experienced dogs are happy to be there and have seen it all before.  Many of the dogs are not trained to bite anything but arms or sleeves and have never seen the crazy Mondio style helpers with three helpers at once and they are confused and unsure.  Soldiers are not sent into battle until prepared for the mission or tasks expected.  The US at least does not send 14 year olds into battle with a weapon and the advice to be a man.  It's the same with dogs.  Evaluate the dog's performance once it has the training for the job not before it has been properly trained for the tasks.  An IPO dog has no chance to perform well if not trained in Mondio Ring and just led onto the field unprepared.  That is not the dog's fault but is the fault of the trainer. Below from the same venue and date a Mal properly prepared and probably not a stranger to the location or the tests used.  The dogs only doing arm bites are clearly not prepared for this type event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPupKonptSA&list=UUEM5hbR_the1kwTFFXMrJ8A&index=193

At the 2015 WUSV some 32 dogs did not finish, were disqualified or did not score 70 points in one or more event.  Were these dogs weak nerved Gee and Susie .. if so how did they get to the WUSV.  These dogs had trained hundreds of times on the exact same course and as close as possible to the exact same conditions yet 32 of the best from WUSV IPO failed??  It is a poor workman that blames his tools.

http://wusv-wm2015.fi/results/

You say things like - "Many of the dogs are not trained to bite anything but arms or sleeves and have never seen the crazy Mondio style helpers with three helpers at once and they are confused and unsure"

I say - once again you are using the word "TRAINED".

A decent dog WILL engage.

And as stated before, your concern for injury on slippery floors - rings alarm bells for me when we are talking about a so called working dog.

With all due respect, you picked out only the dogs who were weak, then blamed the trainers.

There were some extremely capable dogs on that sequence. (I let the sequence run to about six vids, the latter ones being the more capable dogs)

Regards
Gee

It's not worth the time.
Thank you Gee

Gee .. the OP picked the first three dogs, not I .. I took the time to watch those three and then investigate the others at the same venue and date. Some of the dogs were prepared for the venue and the games played there .. a sort of schoolhouse Mondio style. The dog and the gun are not the solution to every task the police must deal with. Many times the dog needs to stay in the car and the gun in the holster. The abuse and misuse of force by law enforcement is a problem front and center in the USA at this time .. the use of police dogs as offensive weapons is also under scrutiny. In the USA the bravery of the police or the police dogs is not in question .. the intelligence of the way the police use force and the police dogs against citizens is however very much in doubt. There are many situations in which a service dog will be very correct in not biting and training is needed to develop a dog with the knowledge and experience to use force when needed and restrain itself from biting when restraint is necessary.

Bub - you are an articulate guy, whose heart/social conscience is in the right place.

Any unleashing of force/aggression, needs to be proportionate.

The dog of course does not do politics.

From a handlers perspective - these tests are insightful.

Regards
Gee

Awe,

this never gets old..for some.

Martina

we have several of these competitions like this overhere in czech and it is very insightful , and much more fun to watch than rained programs
I bet many trainers with famous dogs would be very hesitant to enter any surprise competition like these
I competed at several of these, fun to do

Duke - Kudos, great to see dogs who will run through walls to engage.

Regards
Gee