Positive Sport Training - Page 3

I have never participated nor ever wanted to take part in either of those events and I did not train those dogs. I can only speak of dogs I have trained with my methods, however, maybe those dogs were not proofed properly or maybe they were only trained with "positive methods" that did not include compulsion.

Maybe all wide receivers in the NFL should wear prong collars or E collars so that when they drop a pass when they are wide open and miss a pass they should have easily caught they get a correction.  I think that is not necessary for NFL receivers as the witholding of a positive reinforced ( money, fame, cheers ) is all the correction that they need.  Every dog is different but for many dogs they know when they have disappointed and a verbal correction or witheld praise is enough to get the message.  If the dogs starts dreading the correction or expecting it then the correction becomes part of the problem instead of part of a useful solution.

Well said bubba!

Vonrivera

Bubba, dogs are not humans, if a dog knows when a correction will come, because of proper training, the dog will not commit the infraction to get a correction. Like it or not, dogs work and work best to avoid a correction they know will come when they blow a command. In other words, a properly trained dog understands what brings rewards and what brings compulsion and works hard to avoid compulsion and get the rewards...you must have not trained any dogs.

Vonrivera, now we know where you stand on training and corrections and what your views are, you should have simply shared that in the first place and we could have avoided all of this. Good night gents.

I have fought this same notion. At the end of the day, I have determined that it depends on your goals. If you want to be able to win at high regional or National level and you are not like Mike Ellis or somebody than you probably need the ecollar stuff.

But, if you want to trial at club level and have fun and not worry about getting high in trial than I think you can do without the ecollar stuff. Just my take on what I am doing.....

 I have been kicked out of a club for not using an ecollar. They wanted me to do it to get more focus in obedience. But, I trained and showed akc with same dog and regularly scored high with many blue ribbons. For me, i don't need the robatic stare with neck bent at weird angle as my dog still has attention. I dont need a HIT IPO heeling pattern.

But, I encourage you to try to go as far as you can with your style! Don't let anyone talk you out of it!!

I also think a lot depends on the dog. Is it a hard dog or a handler sensitive dog that responds to verbal correction? Is it your pet or your competition dog...as they are not always the same thing. What kind of relationship do you want with your dog and would that relationship be effected by complusion training?

There is just some part of me that finds shocking my pet to enable a better performance violates my sensibility. I also find when I find myself flip flopping and pondering using complusion it is because "I" am getting ambitious with MY goals. Not necessarily what is best for my particular dog or our relationship.

If complusion training always worked than why do top dogs at Regionals, Nationals, and WUSV competitions break patterns or disobey? Just sayin'....

Sarah, I am not a sport dog person, I dont train for it and I dont compete in it. I value my relationship with my dog and his safety. I do NOT "flip flop" when I know the dog needs a correction and the correction is always tailored to that particular dog, his temperament and the type of infraction, however, when it comes to my dog, I am a benevolent dictator...what I want to happen, WILL happen, one way or the other, which is why choosing the right dog for the job is paramount.

My relationship with my dog is very clear and black and white. He KNOWS, 100%, when the hammer will drop and he knows when the rewards will come. Contrary to what many believe, dogs work best when they know a correction is always an option and you have trained them how to avoid it and get the reward instead. So, when I see my dog running at a 6 lane highway to get that kitty across it, you bet I will hit him with the E collar at its highest level because Sarah, a correction is not meant to squash behavior just for that very time, its meant to leave a lasting impression in his head too of what will happen next time he tries that. I can handle having my dog hurt for a few seconds rather than see him become a speed bump, cant you?

What is necessarily best is for me to determine, not the dog and certainly not my emotional side or the dog may pay the price.

ADD: Rest easy buddy, you were a great dog...you are free to chase your ball all you want now...

Hired Dog.....we have had these disagreements before! We will, as always, have to agree to disagree!

You have very civil dogs that 99% of owners would not be able to handle and you want a hard dog to do police, etc. much different from the pet owner who competes for fun. 

We are talking about apples and oranges and you know it.

you are dealing with civil dogs that need high defense and also to always do the right thing to save officers lives. You know that is a different world from people who have gsd to compete in sport....

you are right in your world. 

But, not every gsd will be a k9 dog. :-)

sarah

I have raised 5 dogs in last ten years from puppy to police dog on the streets. Every one of them have played with my grandchildren and could have been fine pets for family. I have not used even a pinch collar or electric on any of them. I use fur saver and leather collars for bite work. There are a lot of misconceptions about the type of dog it takes to do police work on the streets. Yes, they require a certain level of hardness and fight, which should be present in the breed, but if they have good nerves 90% also make excellent family dogs because they are trained WHEN to use the civil, and when not. When I bred litters, maybe two of dogs would go to people for future work, and the rest of the pups went to families.....same genetics as the potential police pup. 

the dog will not commit the infraction to get a correction

It has been shown time and again that that is just not true.  The simplest answer for this being that dogs aren't robots.  They can be fully aware that a correction is coming and still choose to disobey (for any number of reasons)

When they choose to disobey Xeph, it was because the correction they received during training was not hard enough, timed incorrectly, etc. Of course dogs will "test" occasionally, but, if you are consistant in your training, it wont happen often.