A big male GSD in the house among females - Page 1

I really like an 11 week old male in the litter. I am certain to keep a female. I will not sexually alter any. I want to know the likely problem with keep the male.

I want to know how great a problem it will be to prevent mating. I am not concerned about the physical arrangement. It is easy to make sure that the male will not break out, but I am worried about how great a protest it will make in terms of restlessness and barking, etc, when a nearby female is in heat. Will the male bark all the time in distress?

 

I have never had an accidental breeding on home of mixed sex unaltered. I use kennels and crates and no one is in charge of dogs except me. However, you may not want to deal with it as they will drive you NUTS during two and half weeks couple times a year. If you cant deal with whinning, barking, begging, scratching, trying to get loose and digging and have no experience in trying to keep hormone driven creatures from getting together and the other females objecting and possible fight breakouts causeing your females to never get along again.... this is not for you. Takes a secure system, strong handler, and zero mistakes along with the ability to ignore all the noise racket and haveing no neighbors to object as well.

GSDNewbie, couldn't have said it better myself!!! We're into day 4 of whining, howling, loss of brain matter now speaks some foreign language male who's also not eating. Yeah, so fun.. NOT. GIrls are older and going to be spayed in the spring (they're 8) thank goodness!!! I honestly don't want to keep females anymore after my girls!!

Melissa

It will to some extent depend on the individual dog.  Some dig, scratch
and howl much more than others in this situation.  Sometimes the
bitches get worse than the males.

Outside kennels & runs are better if you have them, than indoor crates
and dog boxes.    I second the bit about the neighbours !

our household has 8 intact dogs, 3 adult GSD males, 2 adult GSD females and 3 adult small breed females.  As you can imagine, it seems that half the year someone is in season here.  We've been blessed (along with some firm training) that our 3 adult GSD males get along very well together and do not whine, fuss, etc. when someone is in season  (note that 2 of the males have sired litters.)  I've never had an accidental litter (actually all of my current female dogs have never been bred, never had a litter though they range in age from 2-6 yrs, the female GSDs are 4 and 5 yrs.) 

I will note that I always keep the females separated from the males when someone is in heat.  For the most part I run my dogs in 3 different groups: the boys together, the GSD girls together and the small girls together.   The personality dynamics among the dogs in these groups work very well together.  

So, it most certainly is possible to live with intact females and males in the house without fights, whining, scratching, fussing, accidental breedings, etc.  

Not two, not three, but four weeks twice a year has become a nightmare.....LOL
Two in and two going out.
24 hours in a day, long days, longer nights, the mess equals the noise, but it can be done.
Not for the faint of heart.
 

Research the behavior of the fathers/grandfathers. Some males can be separated from a female in heat by just 2 crates and a bedroom door and just whine. My malinois males literally scream, trash crates and try to break teeth on kennels. They refuse to eat, gulp water, pant, pace and I have to watch out for bloat. They will also start guarding the female and the area around the house - I put them in the car and drive them away to another part of the neighborhood for their evening walk - they literally relax as soon as we get away. It's only about a 4-5 day period, but the screaming keeps me up at night. I may start boarding them with a working GSD breeder who has a kennel in the country. My neighbors are quick to call the police for noise disturbance. So check out the behaviors of the males in the lines. For me, it's worth it.

I don't think it's that big of a deal, honestly. It's annoying, not impossible. My males are pretty good. They just get a bit distracted, restless, whine a little, but nothing crazy. My Chihuahua was the only one who got too bad about it (he would relentlessly hump his bed) but he was wound a bit tightly to begin with. My GSD males and my Pit Bull do just fine, except for more thorough sniffing and licking of grass and more distracted meal times. My females don't have the opportunity to fight, but they don't seem to want to, either. I am pretty picky about temperament and obedience, so that definitely plays a role, but I really think most people blow it out of proportion. 

For reference, the most I've had was 4 intact males and 4 intact females of different breeds. Right now I have 2 males and 4 females.

 

I had 2 intact males and 1 intact female and kept them apart during her heat.  It was tough dealing with the whining and endless attempts to get to her through the door when she was in heat (my son put it best - mom, it's like when a really pretty girl you like is teasing the heck out of you and doesn't know her power and all you can think of is her 24/7).  I also have a good friend who is a K9 officer and has 1 intact male, 2 spayed females, and 2 intact females.  She said the logistics and drama of keeping 2 females (who now go into heat at the same time) from killing each other and the male from getting to them is a nightmare, but worth it (she says to shoot her in the next breath).  Her females are bred every 2 years but at alternate years ONLY when there is a demand for puppies from fellow K9 or Ring people.

EuroShepherd, I would love to pick your brain some day since my dream is to have enough property for a nice big fenced in area for them to run and and 4 GSDs in the house.  Ok, a couple horses, alpacas, goats, etc.  Animals are my sanity saver........  And of course picking the brains of all you others who have done it successfully
 

Mindhunt...my dream is still to have a big property with all kinds of species of critters too     Maybe my boyfriend will make my dream come true... he has 200+ acres in Maine (he doesn't live there currently, but plans to move there in a few years) 

But, as for picking my brain on how I manage it in my household?  I have to say that some of it is just pure luck.  But here is a list of the things that I think help with having a multi-intact dog household and still keeping one's sanity.  
Being very selective of the dogs one keeps...
not having very hard dogs
not having wound-up, high anxiety, extreme energy dogs
have dogs who have a very strong desire to please and are willing to learn and obey (without treats/toys to bribe!) 
having a strong bond with each individual dog...meaning I spend personal time with each of the dogs (except for Benjamin...he is bonded to my dad and dad spends individual time with him.)  (bonding time is one-on-one in a secluded place with no distractions: cuddling, long calm grooming sessions, one-on-one obedience, etc.) 
the dogs respect me without question, I don't accept anything less.
have dogs with very stable, very balanced temperaments with very good ability to reason and judge. 
have dogs without genetic dog aggression.
keep dogs that like each other  (thankfully very blessed with this!) 
having the dogs do tasks together as a group, such as taking them on walks and doing obedience together, playing fetch with them together as a group-which will include having everyone down/stay and only having one fetch while the others maintain self-control and just watch.   We do practice a lot of self-control exercises.  
letting males be exposed to and grow up with intact females, letting those females give corrections to males, also giving corrections myself to any kind of inappropriate humping (as in, humping anything: objects, humans, a female who is not in peak heat and actually ready to be bred.)  (note: when a female is in peak heat, ready to be bred, I don't expose her to a male unless I actually want her bred.)    
I will say that occasionally I'll have a girl coming into heat or just come out of heat that I'll allow to run with the other dogs and the whole group will initially get on edge, but because they are bonded to me and fully respect me, a firm word from me and using appropriate body language will diffuse a situation.  Should a dog try or does bite another dog, I will bust their ass.  (the only exception to this is I will allow a bitch to snap at a male if he tries to hump her, but she is not allowed to try to beat the crap out of him.)

In regards to above statement, I have dealt, on several occasions, pack fights of 3 or more dogs....most pack fights I've experienced were with English show Labradors (not saying that this type and breed is prone to fighting, they are NOT!)  These were dogs that I did not own, for the most part the dogs had a general respect for me because I was human and they respected humans, but they were not bonded to me.  So using a firm word was not always respected by them and these fights had to be broken up with cattle prods.   And these dogs are much softer than German Shepherds...so this experience I've had does make me believe that having each dog strongly bonded to you and that they have unquestioning trust and respect for you are the very most important factors to preventing fights and stopping a fight in about to start or already in progress.  

I do believe that males who get minimal exposure to females, perhaps only living with one or two, will have a tendency to be more of a pain in the ass with whining, scratching, etc.  
Males who are around a lot of females, constantly exposed to bitches in season, even if they are never allowed to ever breed, will get desensitized to the hormones and will be easy to live with.  (please note that is not saying that they will lose the desire to breed, usually the case is they just ignore the female until her hormones tells him that she has ovulated and eggs are ready for fertilization, and then they just get the job over and done with without any fuss.) 


So the key points here is each dog needs to be bonded and have unquestioning trust and respect in you....and not every dog could live in a multi-dog (or multi-intact-dog) household, so if you desire to have a multi-dog household then you need to be selective of the dogs you keep....if a dog is not working out with the whole household then either it needs to be rehomed or permanently kept separated and never allowed contact with whomever they don't get along with.   (meaning sturdy crates/kennels and keeping a rotation schedule)